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秋续春色,叶叶如花
Thread poster: tianle Zhu
Meixia Jordan
Meixia Jordan  Identity Verified
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多谢指教! Aug 18, 2014

David Lin wrote:

有关发布相片的问题,你只需将相片上传到你的 Flikr 或 Google 户口照片组,从中找到图片的 img 链结,然后抄录过来这里即可。

要注意有关相片的专利权问题,如果不是自己拍,是人家的照片,请提供来源出处。有图片公司用软件侦察故意或无意擅用的照片,并提出控诉。要小心处理。


有时间会试一试,也许能够帮你找到一位翩翩起舞的花神!


 
wherestip
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Camus' Quotation in French Aug 18, 2014

QHE wrote:

It seems that the quotation attributed to Albert Camus in French is “L'automne est un deuxième ressort où chaque feuille est une fleur.”



Thanks, QHE. That was most helpful.

http://www.frenchmoments.eu/french-quotes-and-sayings-about-autumn/






L’automne est un deuxième ressort où chaque feuille est une fleur.

-- Albert Camus



 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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何日更重游? Aug 19, 2014

David Lin wrote:

每一年英格兰的秋景都是 “秋续春色,叶叶如花”。

美国新英格兰 New England 的秋景更美。在那边居住的同仁必有同感。

luttyzhu 确实译得很棒。二十多年前我刚来美国时,就住在 New England。秋季当我在乡间公路上开车漫游时,“叶叶如花”的美丽景色真让人心旷神怡、流连忘返!下面这张照片就显示了 New England 常见的秋景:



https://www.google.com/search?q="Fall%20foliage%20in%20New%20England"&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=6OryU9-MJcyUyAT5_IJg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=624


[Edited at 2014-08-19 06:19 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
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个人觉得用 where 更有诗意 Aug 19, 2014

QHE wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:
wherestip wrote:

... 我个人是觉得用 where 更好些。 当然如 lbone 所说,网上用 when 的极多。


http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/where

3 used to talk about a particular stage in a process, conversation, story etc:

The treatment will continue until the patient reaches the point where he can walk correctly and safely.


我以为是作者的独创呢.


It seems that the quotation attributed to Albert Camus in French is “L'automne est un deuxième ressort où chaque feuille est une fleur.”

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/où


当然,when 没有问题。


 
Fargoer
Fargoer
Canada
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赞! Aug 19, 2014

luttyzhu wrote:
秋续春色,叶叶如花。


这个真的很棒!


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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探讨 Aug 19, 2014

QHE wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:
wherestip wrote:

... 我个人是觉得用 where 更好些。 当然如 lbone 所说,网上用 when 的极多。


http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/where

3 used to talk about a particular stage in a process, conversation, story etc:

The treatment will continue until the patient reaches the point where he can walk correctly and safely.


我以为是作者的独创呢.


It seems that the quotation attributed to Albert Camus in French is “L'automne est un deuxième ressort où chaque feuille est une fleur.”

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/où

谢谢 QHE 提供以上链接。我不懂法文,但从 QHE 提供的链接可以看出,取决于上下文,où 也可以表示 at that time、when 的意思。
3. At that time; when.
Au moment nous parlons, le téléphone sonne.

Spring 和 Autumn 都是指时间而不是地点。所以,我个人认为,在英译文中,用 when 更合乎逻辑。

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/spring_1
spring
1 SEASON [uncountable and countable] the season between winter and summer when leaves and flowers appear

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/autumn
autumn also fall American English [uncountable and countable]
the season between summer and winter, when leaves change colour and the weather becomes cooler


 
wherestip
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Off the top of my head Aug 19, 2014

Yueyin,

I think both are okay. The use of "where" in this situation might be more colloquial or casual, while "when" might be more grammatically correct

In the following link, some folks mention that the Longman Dictionary and the Oxford Dictionary don't exactly agree on the use of "where" as a conjunction when referencing a point in time. My guess is the use of "where" might be more of a North American thing.
<
... See more
Yueyin,

I think both are okay. The use of "where" in this situation might be more colloquial or casual, while "when" might be more grammatically correct

In the following link, some folks mention that the Longman Dictionary and the Oxford Dictionary don't exactly agree on the use of "where" as a conjunction when referencing a point in time. My guess is the use of "where" might be more of a North American thing.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2409687
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QHE
QHE
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赶鸭子上架 Aug 19, 2014

我开始看到这个英文句子时, 象 Steve 和 J.H. 一样, 觉得用 where, when 都可以, 也偏向于用 where. 象 Steve前面指出的,这里 where 表示一种承接关系/情形;因为作者要表示的是 “Autumn is a second spring…”, 而不是单单指出秋天时树叶颜色变化.

后来看到法文句子用的是 “où”,而不是"quand" (
... See more
我开始看到这个英文句子时, 象 Steve 和 J.H. 一样, 觉得用 where, when 都可以, 也偏向于用 where. 象 Steve前面指出的,这里 where 表示一种承接关系/情形;因为作者要表示的是 “Autumn is a second spring…”, 而不是单单指出秋天时树叶颜色变化.

后来看到法文句子用的是 “où”,而不是"quand" (相当于 “when”, 比如La lumière du jour ne disparaît pas immédiatement quand le Soleil se couche),更觉得在英文中用 where 较贴切. 我的法文水平很有限(特别是语法),只知道 “où” 单用时,一般是对应 where; “Au moment où” 连在一起表示时间 “when”. 这只是我有限的一点法文知识,不一定完全正确.


[Edited at 2014-08-19 23:16 GMT]
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tianle Zhu
tianle Zhu
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TOPIC STARTER
谢谢大家支持~~ Aug 20, 2014

看到大家纯学术的讨论真是很开心,充分感受到了这里的学术氛围。
我本人很喜欢汉语的诗歌,但是英语的读的不多,很少有接触。
假如各位有喜欢的英文诗歌,希望能够提供给我试一试,谢谢~~


 
ysun
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Agree Aug 20, 2014

wherestip wrote:

Yueyin,

I think both are okay. The use of "where" in this situation might be more colloquial or casual, while "when" might be more grammatically correct

Steve,

I agree with you. Although I said that "在英译文中,用 when 更合乎逻辑", it doesn't mean that the use of "where" in that sentence is unacceptable.


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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对 où 的理解 Aug 20, 2014

QHE wrote:

后来看到法文句子用的是 “où”,而不是"quand" (相当于 “when”, 比如La lumière du jour ne disparaît pas immédiatement quand le Soleil se couche),更觉得在英文中用 where 较贴切. 我的法文水平很有限(特别是语法),只知道 “où” 单用时,一般是对应 where; “Au moment où” 连在一起表示时间 “when”. 这只是我有限的一点法文知识,不一定完全正确.

谢谢你的解释。我想,“où” 究竟是当 where 讲,还是当 when 讲,也取决于前面被它修饰的词是指 time 还是 location (或 place)。例如,在 “au moment où”、"du jour où" 和 “du temps où” 等情况下,“où” 就当 when 讲。所以,对于那个句子,出于对所修饰词的不同理解,有些人就把 “où” 译成 where,有些人就译成 when。当然,我上面已经说过,我不懂法文。这只是我的判断,不一定对。欢迎批评指正。

http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/où/forced


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
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谈谈我的一点感受 Aug 20, 2014

QHE wrote:

我开始看到这个英文句子时, 象 Steve 和 J.H. 一样, 觉得用 where, when 都可以, 也偏向于用 where. 象 Steve前面指出的,这里 where 表示一种承接关系/情形;因为作者要表示的是 “Autumn is a second spring…”, 而不是单单指出秋天时树叶颜色变化.

后来看到法文句子用的是 “où”,而不是"quand" (相当于 “when”, 比如La lumière du jour ne disparaît pas immédiatement quand le Soleil se couche),更觉得在英文中用 where 较贴切. 我的法文水平很有限(特别是语法),只知道 “où” 单用时,一般是对应 where; “Au moment où” 连在一起表示时间 “when”. 这只是我有限的一点法文知识,不一定完全正确.


[Edited at 2014-08-19 23:16 GMT]


其实,我最初读到 where 时,曾稍微感觉到一点不适;不过,当我读完这句话,并加以理解后,感觉 where 用得是可以接受的,甚至觉得用得很妙的。因为,我知道 where 作关系副词时,它有一个意思是 in or to a situation in which。我觉得这里的用法除了 Steve 的解释外,似乎也可以用这个义项来解释,这里的 spring 已经不是一个纯粹的时间概念了,而且还带有空间的性质,可以理解为一个开满鲜花、生机洋溢的 scene、condition 或 situation。

一点个人的看法,供参考。


 
wherestip
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再多啰嗦一下 Aug 20, 2014

ysun wrote:

wherestip wrote:

Yueyin,

I think both are okay. The use of "where" in this situation might be more colloquial or casual, while "when" might be more grammatically correct

Steve,

I agree with you. Although I said that "在英译文中,用 when 更合乎逻辑", it doesn't mean that the use of "where" in that sentence is unacceptable.


Yueyin,

I see your point. You're coming from the perspective of how the French word où could or should be interpreted in this instance. My knowledge of French is pathetic, but I agree with your argument that the French word où could very well mean "when" in certain situations. The mere appearance of the word "où" doesn't necessarily equate to the English meaning of "where".

~*~*~*~*

Anyway, on a different track, and perhaps to correct what I said yesterday, please allow me to reference the Merriam-Webster Learner's Dictionary that might explain the usage of "where" as a conjunction much better than my attempt yesterday(perhaps erroneously). I think some of the sample sentences might have some similarity in sentence structure and could further demonstrate the acceptability of the usage ...



http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/where

3a — used to refer to a particular point in a story, process, etc.

The town has reached the size where traffic is a problem. (我觉得句型与“Autumn” 一句比较相似)

The project is at a point where the end is in sight.

4: in a situation in which (QHE and J.H. 所说的 “情形”)



 
ysun
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Both are okay Aug 20, 2014

Steve,

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. I agree that both “where” and “when” are okay. In fact, in all of my postings in this thread, I've never had any objections to the use of “where”. As to which one is better, I think it's just a matter of personal preference.


[Edited at 2014-08-20 16:03 GMT]


 
wherestip
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是的 Aug 20, 2014

ysun wrote:

Steve,

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. I agree that both “where” and “when” are okay. In fact, in all of my postings in this thread, I've never had any objections to the use of “where”. As to which one is better, I think it's just a matter of personal preference.



I agree with you, Yueyin. It's a matter of personal preference.


 
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秋续春色,叶叶如花






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