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Off topic: 唱歌吧......(Sing, Sing a Song...)
Thread poster: Wenjer Leuschel
Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Small Talk Dec 3, 2006

大卫兄,

德人确实呆板了些,但他们对理智的坚持可说是呆得可爱。可爱在 predictability。这是许多文化里极缺少的气质。不过,德人在艺术方面的成就其实也不差。Ernst Barlach 曾经旅行俄罗斯,花了一系列的俄罗斯印象,也做了一系列的雕塑,我到哪个博物馆,爱看的是那些雕像。其中有一座名为“Die Bettlerin”(女丐) 给我非常多的启示。可惜我在网上怎么找都找不到这座雕塑的照片,只找到德文的介绍。那种东西只能意会,不可言传。博物馆网站上有一些属于俄罗斯印象系列的雕塑,也还可以看出他的风格,比方说,这个链接的这座雕塑:
http://www.ernst-barlach.de/bildhauer/bildhauer.php?a=detail&img=DieGrablegung_gr&title=Die%20Grablegung,
Relief,%20Eiche,%201917
Schult%20I/187&lang=en
或这个链接的这座雕塑:
http://www.ernst-barlach.de/bildhauer/bildhauer.php?a=detail&img=EkstatischeFrau_gr&title=Ekstatische%20Frau
Bronze%20nach%20einem%20Werkmodell%20von%201920
Schult%20I/221&lang=en
或这个链接的这座雕塑:
http://www.ernst-barlach.de/bildhauer/bildhauer.php?a=detail&img=LachendeAlte_gr&title=Lachende%20Alte,
Bronze%20nach%20einem%20Werkmodell%20von%201937
Schult%20I/483&lang=en
和这个链接的这座雕塑:
http://www.ernst-barlach.de/bildhauer/bildhauer.php?a=detail&img=SitzendesWeib_gr&title=Sitzendes%20Weib,
Fichte,%201908,
Schult%20I/80&lang=en
老实说,单单用理智是看不出所以然的。“女丐”那座雕塑也属于这个系列,风格上是同系的,但令人震撼的是 Barlach 捕捉的“谦卑”(Demut, 德语是这么说的):一般人以为德人强悍,但他们的强悍来自集体意识,个人却相当认命,这就是 Demut 的意涵。

Gutenberg 看来似乎比毕升更受到世人的纪念,连网络世界都有规模庞大的 Gutenberg Project,我自己从那个 project 受惠不少,年轻时读得一知半解的许多经典著作,由于年久,纸本的书籍不是被虫咬坏了,就是分散在我居住过的几个家里,从 Gutenberg Project 却很轻易下载,用 CD 保存下来。

Gutenberg 印行的圣经造成后来的新旧教分裂。又这么一部电影拍得还很人性: http://www.luther-der-film.de/ 其中虽然有一点考证上的小小错误,但主脉还是正确的,不能说是不严谨,值得一看,Amazon 应该买得到。

以我个人的人生经验来说,理智与感情并非不能相容。CAT tools 如 Trados 或 Star Transit 或 SDLX 之类的东西其实也有其艺术的内涵,只是对大伟兄而言,这一类的东西得先从理智下手,当然有伤右脑半球了。不过,以你的翻译一个字有一毛八、两毛以上的价值,当然应该不用 CAT tools,否则就不再是你的翻译了。如果你愿意的话,我有时会有客户需要创意性的翻译,可否算个好价给我?;) 打你主意很久了呢,嘿嘿。


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David Shen  Identity Verified
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美女情长, 英雄气短 Dec 3, 2006

文哲兄,

首先谢谢你对我的器重, 翻译功底无法一概而论,这个网站上藏龙卧虎, 高手盈门,分门别类,许多人平时都不开口的。我只是个喜欢在前台戏耍的猴罢了。平时接触的只是美术界和文艺批评多些,很少是实用的,这点自知还是有的。在自己的故土找不到清静,在异乡至少找到一份心境上的清静。恩将仇报者确实有;滴水之恩,涌泉相报者也还有,但两者都很少了。兄长如我是你,在你现处的文化大革命中,我会把窗户关起来,二鼻不闻三家臭,一心专译圣贤书。可我不是你,也就只能这样了。

愿谅我对德人的偏见。八十年代我们办公室里有几位出色的女孩,其中公认最漂亮的一位是上外分配来的德语翻译,当时德语需求不多,她常跟在我后做英语翻译,先生是个出挑的年轻教师。我们学校虽小可杭州除了浙大,各国留学生最多的就数美院了。 四个徳国留学生中,有一位平时进进出出都不开口,最多只跟人一对眼一点头的徳国小伙子。突然有一天,我们的德语女翻译跟办公室主任提出要走了。令大家大吃一惊。我是时常带了人在外写生的时间多,回来也不跟她同一个办公室。除了她丈夫外,坐在她对面的年轻副主任大约是最受挫的一位,因为他官不大却在官位上在,平时很少有机会出门。人去楼空之感当以他为最伤心。尽管我们所有人之间,都是同事关系,绝无非份之想。可每天上班去能和赏心悦目的人在一起不能不说是一大幸运。对学美术的,这方面要求更迫切。可那徳国小子究竟使了什么招数把我们大家的美人儿给抢走了?“老子与你势不两立!” 办公室上下的男同志们皆有如此心态。我说的那位比我还年轻的副主任,写得一手好字,可惜几年前年纪轻轻就作古了。至于那女孩,是个很善良的人,我绝不相信她是图人家一张护照或钱财。只知她跟那徳国伙子去了汉堡美院。也许她看中的,正是德国人的一丝不苟?有时和已在美国的原大陆同室同事电话聊天,还会谈起这类事情。

谢谢这些雕塑,有点象柯勒惠支的版画风格,做宣传挺顶用的,所以新文化运动大力提倡,要唤醒民众,这样statement确实收效很好,有“一呼百应”之功,这点又应当归功于德国人了。


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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情歌也可以那樣唱法 Dec 3, 2006

David Shen wrote:
首先谢谢你对我的器重, 翻译功底无法一概而论,这个网站上藏龙卧虎, 高手盈门,分门别类,许多人平时都不开口的。我只是个喜欢在前台戏耍的猴罢了。平时接触的只是美术界和文艺批评多些,很少是实用的,这点自知还是有的。


這裡高手雲集,這我知道的,畢竟觀察許久。翻譯行外的人以為翻譯就那麼個行業,但在行內的人可就知道翻譯是各行各業、包羅萬象,不在一行內就無法翻譯那個行業的文本。但是,各種人才我都不時有需,所以平常三教九流什麼朋友都交,唯獨在翻譯行內,特別需要清楚分辨。

你很適合做創意性的翻譯,這可以看出來的。可惜我沒有在一年半以前認識你。當時有個項目搞了半年,總預算五萬美元,幫一家財團做他們在香港開業的所有廣告文宣,由一家公關公司和我共同策劃,由我安排人員處理中文文宣。那時做得非常辛苦,因為許多美工設計的工作和文字是相配合的,而我對美術有點遲鈍;大概是受到德國人理智的影響吧,沒有道理的圖像我就是吃不下去,跟那家公關公司折騰了許久,總算把事情辦妥。參與的翻譯者都得到很好的酬勞,算算一個字應該是三塊錢以上吧,因為那原本就不是算字數的,而是算達到文宣效果的創意。這種工作讓你來做,肯定會比我指揮那些跟我一樣對美術不靈的翻譯者來得有效。尤其你的文字功力實在強,言簡意賅,三兩句就把文宣主題打入人心,這種功夫你確實有的。這種項目很難得,但遇上了做一樁就是一大筆,幾個人分,一人分個一兩萬,絞腦汁的辛勞也就不算什麼。

David Shen wrote:
愿谅我对德人的偏见。八十年代我们办公室里有几位出色的女孩,其中公认最漂亮的一位是上外分配来的德语翻译,当时德语需求不多,她常跟在我后做英语翻译,先生是个出挑的年轻教师。我们学校虽小可杭州除了浙大,各国留学生最多的就数美院了。 四个徳国留学生中,有一位平时进进出出都不开口,最多只跟人一对眼一点头的徳国小伙子。突然有一天,我们的德语女翻译跟办公室主任提出要走了。令大家大吃一惊。我是时常带了人在外写生的时间多,回来也不跟她同一个办公室。除了她丈夫外,坐在她对面的年轻副主任大约是最受挫的一位,因为他官不大却在官位上在,平时很少有机会出门。人去楼空之感当以他为最伤心。尽管我们所有人之间,都是同事关系,绝无非份之想。可每天上班去能和赏心悦目的人在一起不能不说是一大幸运。对学美术的,这方面要求更迫切。可那徳国小子究竟使了什么招数把我们大家的美人儿给抢走了?“老子与你势不两立!” 办公室上下的男同志们皆有如此心态。我说的那位比我还年轻的副主任,写得一手好字,可惜几年前年纪轻轻就作古了。至于那女孩,是个很善良的人,我绝不相信她是图人家一张护照或钱财。只知她跟那徳国伙子去了汉堡美院。也许她看中的,正是德国人的一丝不苟?有时和已在美国的原大陆同室同事电话聊天,还会谈起这类事情。


愛情這種東西誰也說不準。
我的一位嫁到美國的女性朋友說,咱們這一代的在台華人最無趣,憂國憂民的,就是幽不了默。德國人的幽默很特別,需要時間習慣。比方說,有個德國孩子一直不說話,到了十八歲的某天喝湯時說了「這個湯的溫度不對」,他的母親說「感謝上帝!你能說話?那以前為什麼不說話?」,孩子淡淡回答「以前一切都很好呀。」又,美國人來到德國漢諾威,問他的德國友人怎麼很少看到在歐洲別地處處可見的古老建築,德國人淡淡回答:都被你們炸光了。
這種幽默不太容易消化。搞不好你們那個女同事恰恰愛上這種幽默也說不定。我周遭一大堆這種類型的德國人,有趣得緊。聽底下這個鏈接裡談的 Nena 唱的 99 Luftballons,再看蔣行之的解說,大概就會了解德國人腦袋裡的東西。情歌居然也可以那樣唱法!

http://odeo.com/audio/276833/view

http://www.ylib.com/readit/tower/default.asp?DocId=ESSAY&SNO=386

David Shen wrote:
谢谢这些雕塑,有点象柯勒惠支的版画风格,做宣传挺顶用的,所以新文化运动大力提倡,要唤醒民众,这样 statement 确实收效很好,有“一呼百应”之功,这点又应当归功于德国人了。


沒錯,這類型東西的感染力特強,做廣告文宣時很可以拿來應用。哪天你看到 Ernst Barlach 的「女丐」,一定會發現我感動的原因。


[Edited at 2006-12-04 11:50]


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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But you and I, our love will never die Dec 4, 2006

First of May Lyrics
Artist(Band):Sarah Brightman

When I was small, and Christmas trees were tall,
we used to love while others used to play.
Don't ask me why, but time has passed us by,
someone else moved in from far away.

Now we are tall, and Christmas trees are small,
and you don't ask the time of day.
But you and I, our love will never die,
but guess who'll cry come first of May.

The apple tree that grew for you and me,
I watched the apples falling one by one.
And as I recall the moment of them all,
the day I kissed your cheek and you were gone.

Now we are tall, and Christmas trees are small,
and you don't ask the time of day.
But you and I, our love will never die,
but guess who'll cry come first of May.

When I was small, and Christmas trees were tall,
do do do do do do do do do ...
Don't ask me why, but time has passed us by,
someone else moved in from far away.

http://www.1ting.com/player/65/player_110311.html

First of May
Bee Gees

When I was small,& Christmas trees were tall.
我小时候觉得圣诞树很高
We used to love while others used to play.
我们过去总是爱,其他人总是玩
Don't ask me why,but time has passed us by.
不要问我原因,时光已经流逝
Some one else moved in from far away.
有人从遥远的地方走了过来
(chorus)
Now we are tall,& Christmas trees are small.
现在我们长高了,就觉得圣诞树很矮
And U don't ask the time of day.
你不问我白天的时间
But U & I,our love will never die.
但你和我之间的爱情永不会凋谢
But guess we'll cry come first of May.
但我猜我们会在五一节哭泣
The apple tree that grew 4 U & me.
为了你和我种的苹果树
I watched the apples falling one by one.
我看到苹果一个个掉了下来
And I recall the moment of them all.
我回想起它们成长的时刻
The day I kissed Ur cheek & U were mine.
和我吻你脸颊的那天,你是我的
(chorus...)
Do do do do do do do do do...


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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乖乖! Dec 4, 2006

pkchan wrote:
First of May


记得这是我高中时代电影“两小无猜”的主题曲,应该有三十多年了。

Bee Gees 唱的调子快些,比 Sarah Brightman 唱的好听许多。

PK, 我看你干脆找些 Carpenters 唱的歌来怀旧一下吧。比方说,"Stop, oh yes, wait a minute, Mr. Postman....," "Such a feeling's coming over me; There's a wonder in most everything I see..." 或是 "Why do birds suddenly appear, every time you are near?... Why do stars fall down from the sky, every time you go by?" 等等的。呵,还是老歌好听。


[Edited at 2006-12-05 15:32]


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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Rainy days and Mondays always get me down Dec 5, 2006

每逢是星期一下雨天,必想起『木匠』這首歌。

CARPENTERS » Rainy Days And Mondays

Talking to myself and feeling old
Sometimes I'd like to quit
Nothing ever seems to fit
Hangin' around, nothin' to do but frown
Rainy days and Mondays always get me down

What I've got they used to call the blues
Nothing is really wrong
Feeling like I don't belong
Walking around some kind of lonely clown
Rainy days and Mondays always get me down

Funny but it seems I always wind up here with you
It's nice to know somebody loves me
Funny but it seems that it's the only thing to do
To run and find the one who loves me

(*) What I feel is come and gone before
No need to talk it out
We know what it's all about
Hanging around, nothin' to do but frown
Rainy days and Mondays always get me down

Funny but it seems that it's the only thing to do
Run and find the one who loves me

Repeat (*)

Hangin around, nothing to do but frown
Rainy days and Mondays always get me down

http://music.bjzf.gov.cn/html/g/15259.htm


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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老歌新唱 Dec 7, 2006

http://99mtv.com/99mtvplay.php?id=52117

http://www.9xcn.com/music/play/1239.html

My first order from DangDang has only just arrived... Talk about putting something on a slow boat.

One of the CD's is by an artist 刀郎. I didn't know him from Adam; but I ordered the CD because of this song, a song I heard and liked way back when I was still in junior high.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

草原之夜

美丽的夜色多沉静
草原上只留下我的琴声
想给远方的姑娘写封信
可惜没有邮递员来传情
等到千里雪消融
等到草原上送来春风
柯克达拉改变了模样
姑娘就会来伴我的琴声
来 来 来 来 来 来
来 来 来 来 来 来 来


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xxxchance
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从和你谈后,我已经订了3-4次书了,都还没到呢,呵呵 Dec 7, 2006

wherestip wrote:

My first order from DangDang has only just arrived... Talk about putting something on a slow boat.



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wherestip  Identity Verified
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我以为没戏唱了 ;-) Dec 7, 2006

chance wrote:

从和你谈后,我已经订了3-4次书了,都还没到呢,呵呵

wherestip wrote:

My first order from DangDang has only just arrived... Talk about putting something on a slow boat.



My two orders from joyo arrived in about 12 days after the shipping notice was sent. joyo uses DHL. joyo's shipping and handling charges were about the same as dangdang's. But dangdang's stuff took about 50 days to get here.


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xxxchance
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急用的辞典我是从joyo订的快件,其它不急的书籍类从当当订慢件海运 Dec 7, 2006

它就名符其实地慢

wherestip wrote:

My two orders from arrived in about 12 days after the shipping notice was sent. joyo uses DHL. joyo's shipping and handling charges were about the same as dangdang's. But dangdang's stuff took about 50 days to get here.



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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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跟我訂書快些吧? Dec 7, 2006

chance wrote:
从和你谈后,我已经订了3-4次书了,都还没到呢,呵呵
wherestip wrote:
My first order from DangDang has only just arrived... Talk about putting something on a slow boat.


呵呵!


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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可惜没有邮递员来传情 Dec 7, 2006

wherestip wrote:

http://99mtv.com/99mtvplay.php?id=52117

http://www.9xcn.com/music/play/1239.html

My first order from DangDang has only just arrived... Talk about putting something on a slow boat.

One of the CD's is by an artist 刀郎. I didn't know him from Adam; but I ordered the CD because of this song, a song I heard and liked way back when I was still in junior high.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

草原之夜

美丽的夜色多沉静
草原上只留下我的琴声
想给远方的姑娘写封信
可惜没有邮递员来传情
等到千里雪消融
等到草原上送来春风
柯克达拉改变了模样
姑娘就会来伴我的琴声
来 来 来 来 来 来
来 来 来 来 来 来 来


此刻,这首传唱了近半个世纪的温柔恬静的《草原之夜》,陡然间变得激荡而澎湃——曲作者田歌,就在眼前。

宽阔的黑边镜片,脸庞方正、黑红,魁梧的样子展露出山东大汉的独异风采。果然,田歌是山东人。
http://www.56-china.com.cn/mzf/MZF-rw3m2.htm

刀郎的歌太有蒼桑感,李雙江也不錯。在E-mail的年代,還要邮递员來传情嗎?或許,远方的姑娘所醉心的,就是那位邮递员FedEx guy,而不是我的琴声。

http://www.1ting.com/player/d3/player_108922.html

[Edited at 2006-12-07 18:36]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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more than a love song Dec 8, 2006



"《草原之夜》的歌词极美,词作家了不起。表面上看来这是一首爱情歌曲,而实际上却是赞颂时代——等到千里雪消融,等到草原上送来春风,可克达拉改变了模样,姑娘就会来伴我的琴声……没有词,作曲家是无法展开创作的翅膀的。" 田歌的谦逊于此可见。这是他时刻不忘的人生法则。



pk,

Thanks for the additional links that provided some background on this song. In my opinion the above quote from 田歌 is not only a reflection on his modesty, but also the honest truth that the song is more than just a love song.

I find the songs that "move" me the most usually need something more than a beautiful melody and lyrics to "motivate" me.

BTW, 郭兰英、马玉涛、李双江、蒋大为 的 CDs 我都买了. 刀郎几首歌我也很欣赏


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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another oldie but goodie Dec 8, 2006

wherestip wrote:

more than a love song



Don't get me wrong... I love love songs, just not the kind that's 无病呻吟

http://sheblogs.vox.com/library/audio/6a00ccff9800b26ea500ccff924de5d756.html

Love Is A Many Splendored Thing - Barry Manilow

Love is a many splendored thing
It's the April rose
That only grows in the early spring
Love is nature's way of giving
A reason to be living
The golden crown that makes a man a king

Once on a high and windy hill
In the morning mist
Two lovers kissed
And the world stood still
Then your fingers touched
My silent heart and taught it how to sing
Yes, true love's
A many splendored thing

Once on a high and windy hill
In the morning mist
Two lovers kissed
And the world stood still
Then your fingers touched
My silent heart and taught it how to sing
Yes, true love's
A many splendored thing


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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there’s no place like Home for the holidays Dec 8, 2006

Carpenters Lyrics - Home for the Holidays


Home for the Holidays Lyrics:
Oh, there’s no place like

Home for the holidays,

¡®cause no matter how far away you roam

When you pine for the sunshine

Of a friendly face

For the holidays, you can’t beat

Home, sweet home


I met a man who lives in tennessee

And he was headin’ for pennsylvania

And some home made pumpkin pie

From pennsylvania folks a travelin’ down

To dixie’s sunny shore

From atlantic to pacific, gee

The traffic is terrific


Oh there’s no place like home

For the holidays, ¡®cause no matter

How far away you roam

If you want

To be happy in a million ways

For the holidays, you can’t beat

Home, sweet home

http://www.operationlettertosanta.com/Kid%20Zone/Childrens%20Carols/home_for_the_holidays.htm


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