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Off topic: 唱歌吧......(Sing, Sing a Song...)
Thread poster: Wenjer Leuschel
ysun  Identity Verified
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雷锋叔叔早已不在了! Mar 25, 2007

Steve,

雷锋叔叔早已不在了!


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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雷锋精神 Mar 25, 2007

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Steve,

雷锋叔叔早已不在了!


是啊, 要是歌颂都不歌颂、提倡都不提倡, 无怪乎社会风气不向前发展反而倒退呢.



[Edited at 2007-03-25 17:00]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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雷锋精神无处不在处处在 Mar 26, 2007

wherestip wrote:

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Steve,

雷锋叔叔早已不在了!


是啊, 要是歌颂都不歌颂、提倡都不提倡, 无怪乎社会风气不向前发展反而倒退呢.


Steve,

我同意你的看法。我们在这里重提雷锋也许会被人笑掉大牙。不过,雷锋那种助人为乐的精神还是处处存在的。在中国如此,在美国也是如此,因为世间绝大多数人的心地还是善良的。不久前曾看到中国一位民工数次下水在汹涌的波涛中抢救落水者的报导。我也曾在美国电视上看到过在冰河里抢救落水儿童的感人场面。有三个小孩在结冰的河面上玩耍,因冰层太薄而落水。此时一位成人跳入刺骨的冰水先把近处的两个小孩救起,然后又回去救距离最远的那个小女孩。那小女孩是个非裔,双臂扒在冰上身体泡在冰水里,随时有可能被湍急的河水卷入冰底,处境十分危险。救人者是位白人,他一面奋力向她游去,一面对那小女孩喊道:“Honey, Hang on! Honey, I am coming to get you!” 最后他成功地将她救起。我可以强烈地感觉到,这一声声的”Honey”表达了那位救人勇士发自肺腑的爱。

还曾见过中国一位女记者帮助抢救溺水者的感人场面。网上有很多人赞扬她是中国最美丽的女记者(当然首先是指她的心灵美),但也有不少人却说她是在作秀。戴有色眼镜的人,任何美丽的人和物在他们眼里也是丑恶的。

http://www.crt.com.cn/news/Html/hsqn/07162341.html
http://news.sohu.com/s2006/06caoaiwen/


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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笑人齿缺 狗窦大开 :D Mar 26, 2007

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Steve,

我同意你的看法。我们在这里重提雷锋也许会被人笑掉大牙。不过,雷锋那种助人为乐的精神还是处处存在的。在中国如此,在美国也是如此,因为世间绝大多数人的心地还是善良的。不久前曾看到中国一位民工数次下水在汹涌的波涛中抢救落水者的报导。我也曾在美国电视上看到过在冰河里抢救落水儿童的感人场面。有三个小孩在结冰的河面上玩耍,因冰层太薄而落水。此时一位成人跳入刺骨的冰水先把近处的两个小孩救起,然后又回去救距离最远的那个小女孩。那小女孩是个非裔,双臂扒在冰上身体泡在冰水里,随时有可能被湍急的河水卷入冰底,处境十分危险。救人者是位白人,他一面奋力向她游去,一面对那小女孩喊道:“Honey, Hang on! Honey, I am coming to get you!” 最后他成功地将她救起。我可以强烈地感觉到,这一声声的”Honey”表达了那位救人勇士发自肺腑的爱。

还曾见过中国一位女记者帮助抢救溺水者的感人场面。网上有很多人赞扬她是中国最美丽的女记者(当然首先是指她的心灵美),但也有不少人却说她是在作秀。戴有色眼镜的人,任何美丽的人和物在他们眼里也是丑恶的。



Yueyin,

你所言极是. 世间难免有以小人之心度君子之腹之辈. 也罢了.


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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有没有必要虚构一个完美的人格? Mar 27, 2007

这是一个见仁见智的问题。雷锋确实是个虚构的人物,他的人格是无比完美的,那样的人格是人们向往追求的人格。但是,虚构的人物毕竟还是虚构的人物,真实的人间只能看到不完美的人格,每一个人的人格都是不完美的。

不过,也许由于我们都知道自己的不完美,所以我们向往完美,因此虚构出完美人格的人物,作为模仿的对象,这原本有着正面积极的意义。比较容易引起争议的是,把虚构的故事当成真实的故事来供奉,那很容易被视为鼓励人们造假的行为。

我个人一向认为,每一个人的人格都是随着时间发展出来的,即使发展的倾向在很年轻的时候就已奠定了基础。因此,在对待自己时,只要诚实面对内心的动机,即可负责地修正错误;而在对待别人时,只要宽厚谅解,如菜根谭中所说“攻人之恶,当思其堪受;教人以善,当使其可从”;如此,人间的互动就会稍稍顺畅些,每个人的人格发展也会有回旋改善的余地。

然而,人之常情是,对待别人和对待自己的标准通常有一大段差距。事实上,那一段差距正是显示出一个人的人格成熟与否的重要指标。越是成熟的人格越能推己及人,评判自己和别人的标准比较接近,不过度攻击别人的小瑕,也不夸张渲染自己的小善。

此外,人们所抱持的理想和他们的言行通常也是有一大段差距的。那就是释迦摩尼说的“身口意”的差距。佛陀认为,追求完美的人格就是使自己的“身口意”合一。当用意、言语和行为合而为一,在三者之间完全没有差距时,一个人的人格就达到至善。

佛陀说的道理似乎与《大学》所说的一模一样。两者所指出的通往完美人格的道路都非常不容易达到,但同样值得追求。那些道理并非虚构,因为它们很清楚指出目标与现实的区别,这和虚构出完美人格的人物的做法很不相同。

依据我个人的观察,越是正常的社会里,人们越是明白理想的完美与现实的不完美之间的差距,知道如何实际有效地不断改善,反倒是不正常的社会里,人们很难学会分辨理想与现实必然存在的差异,为了达到某种目的,占据较佳地位的人们往往会假造完美的假象麻醉群众,让他们忘记现实的不完美,甚至刻意诬蔑别人的善行,让别人无法建立典范威胁到他们的势位。

一个社会里有没有必要虚构一个完美的人格呢?真人真事有善有恶,善者应该推崇,恶者必须压制,虚构一个完美的人格其实一点也没有必要。


[Edited at 2007-03-27 14:27]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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舍己为人 Mar 27, 2007

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

这是一个见仁见智的问题。雷锋确实是个虚构的人物,他的人格是无比完美的,那样的人格是人们向往追求的人格。但是,虚构的人物毕竟还是虚构的人物,真实的人间只能看到不完美的人格,每一个人的人格都是不完美的。



Wenjer,

This is the first I heard that Lei Feng's story was fictitious. If true, it must have been a development after I left Mainland, China.

There were plenty heroic figures in that period though: 黃继光、 董存瑞、刘文学、 欧阳海、焦裕禄 等等, 且不说 49 年前 江雪琴、瞿秋白 这样的烈士 为革命事业捐躯.


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Joking Mar 27, 2007

wherestip wrote:
This is the first I heard that Lei Feng's story was fictitious. I

Steve,

I think Wenjer must be joking, or he didn't know about Lei Feng at all. I think that's perfectly OK. As Lei Feng is largely a mainland figure (although I seem to remember that some US military university [WP?] also talked about Lei Feng).

Best,
Jianjun


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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上一贴的重点 Mar 27, 2007

wherestip wrote:

Wenjer,

This is the first I heard that Lei Feng's story was fictitious. If true, it must have been a development after I left Mainland, China.

There were plenty heroic figures in that period though: 黃继光、 董存瑞、刘文学、 欧阳海、焦裕禄 等等, 且不说 49 年前 江雪琴、瞿秋白 这样的烈士 为革命事业捐躯.


Steve,

在台湾,我记得的是我还没出国前,国民党告诉我们的文革,其中提到雷锋是虚构的人物。

那些历史上舍身为人者,他们是平常人,人格并不完美,比方说瞿秋白,他最后写的文章透露了自己人格上的不完美,写得诚实。

我上一贴的重点并不在于质疑雷锋故事的真实性,而是对于历史和真实人物,我们应该看到的是人格的发展,而不是将他们神格化。比方说,我们小学读到,蒋介石小时候在溪边看到溪水里的鱼逆着水向上游,于是他得到启示力争上游,终于成为民族的救星、世界的伟人...等等云云;你想,会有多少人相信那样的神话?

You are in the States. You are able to access to any website in Taiwan. Try google with the said name and "神话", then you will understand what I try to explain above. And by the way, "How Real Is Real?" by Paul Watzlawick is a nice book for seeing through those tricks.

P.S. 有个说法:历史和小说的不同是,历史上除了人名是真的之外什么都是假的,小说里则是除了人名是假的之外什么都是真的。其实,我并不认为完全如此,历史和小说都各有真假的成分。


[Edited at 2007-03-27 13:22]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Helping Others Mar 27, 2007

Wenjer and Jianjun,

I think a lot of the recent discussion in this forum centers around concern for the less fortunate and the issue of lending a helping hand to fellow human beings in need.

Lei Feng was one of the heroic figures whose story I thought most people here at least were familiar with. Whether some of his stories were exaggerated I don't know. But my recollection they were mostly very small everyday things, like helping an old lady across the street, visiting injured workers in the hospital, etc.

Anyway, like Yueyin mentioned, stories of self-sacrifice and people helping people abound. I think there's a thread in this forum that many of us keep coming back to. Warren Buffett giving away his billions, for example, was discussed at length at one time, although mostly from a language standpoint.

Other well-known humanitarians I can think of off the top of my head are Mother Teresa, Princess Diana, Jimmy Carter...

Even among us, there are those who have financially supported poor kids in getting an education, which I think should be commended.


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Helping Others Mar 27, 2007

BTW, by no means am I implying that I have done enough on my part.

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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Don't worry about that. Mar 27, 2007

wherestip wrote:

BTW, by no means am I implying that I have done enough on my part.


Some people just do whatever they can in that respect without letting others know about it. Some people might know about their deeds, but they might ask them to refrain from venting those deeds. Believe me, there are such people among us, whose IDs I shall not expose.


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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Beyond the Sea Mar 31, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd_nopTFuZA&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAfd_BHGjLI&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTB1TtvOEZ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EchU-2S4SwA&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEIDep_UMmk

Artist: Bobby Darin Lyrics
Song: Beyond the Sea Lyrics
Somewhere beyond the sea,
Somewhere, waiting for me,
My lover stands on golden sands
And watches the ships that go sailing;

Somewhere beyond the sea,
He's (She's) there watching for me.
If I could fly like birds on high,
Then straight to his (her) arms I'd go sailing.

It's far beyond a star,
It's near beyond the moon,
I know beyond a doubt
My heart will lead me there soon.

We'll meet beyond the shore,
We'll kiss just as before.
Happy we'll be beyond the sea,
And never again I'll go sailing!


[Edited at 2007-03-31 01:42]

[Edited at 2007-03-31 01:53]

[Edited at 2007-03-31 02:05]

[Edited at 2007-03-31 02:05]


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redred  Identity Verified
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wherestip Mar 31, 2007

wherestip wrote:

This is the first I heard that Lei Feng's story was fictitious. If true, it must have been a development after I left Mainland, China.



我们都知道学习雷锋好榜样,他更然之是你们那个时代的偶像,在您心目中他光辉而神圣的形象容不得侵犯。


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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I wish you love Mar 31, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv3btK60eZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnn_Rx2WF2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk5uf9hva6M

English lyrics by albert a. beach

French lyrics and music by charles l. trenet

Goodbye, no use leading with our chins

This is where our story ends

Never lovers, ever friends

Goodbye, let our hearts call it a day

But before you walk away

I sincerely want to say

I wish you bluebirds in the spring

To give your heart a song to sing

And then a kiss, but more than this

I wish you love

And in july a lemonade

To cool you in some leafy glade

I wish you health

But more than wealth

I wish you love

My breaking heart and I agree

That you and I could never be

So with my best

My very best

I set you free

I wish you shelter from the storm

A cozy fire to keep you warm

But most of all when snowflakes fall

I wish you love

But most of all when snowflakes fall

I wish you love

I wish you love

I wish you love, love, love, love, love

I wish you love


[Edited at 2007-03-31 02:44]


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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L'Amour Est Bleu Mar 31, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9FYD1dlw4E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_2qty7GptU&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIKpko4Ln90&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fMHvAaIKhc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-a-ObwNReM

L'AMOUR EST BLEU
Album : Why Say Goodbye
(Paroles : Pierre Cour / Musique : André Popp, 1967)

Michèle Torr (France)
Vicky Leandros

Doux, doux, l'amour est doux
Douce est ma vie, ma vie dans tes bras
Doux, doux, l'amour est doux
Douce est ma vie, ma vie près de toi

Bleu, bleu, l'amour est bleu
Berce mon cœur, mon cœur amoureux
Bleu, bleu, l'amour est bleu
Bleu comme le ciel qui joue dans tes yeux

Comme l'eau, comme l'eau qui court
Moi, mon cœur court après ton amour

Gris, gris, l'amour est gris
Pleure mon cœur lorsque tu t’en vas
Gris, gris, le ciel est gris
Tombe la pluie quand tu n'es plus là

Le vent, le vent gémit
Pleure le vent lorsque tu t'en vas
Le vent, le vent maudit
Pleure mon cœur quand tu n'es plus là

Comme l’eau, comme l’eau qui court
Moi, mon cœur, court après ton amour

Bleu, bleu, l'amour est bleu
Le ciel est bleu lorsque tu reviens
Bleu, bleu, l'amour est bleu
L'amour est bleu quand tu prends ma main

Fou, fou, l'amour est fou
Fou comme toi et fou comme moi
Bleu, bleu, l'amour est bleu
L'amour est bleu quand je suis à toi
L'amour est bleu quand je suis à toi

*****
LOVE IS BLUE (L'Amour Est Bleu)
(Andre Popp / Pierre Coup (French Lyrics) / Brian Blackburn (English Lyrics))

Paul Mauriat & His Orch. - 1968
Al Martino - 1968
Claudine Longet - 1968
Marty Robbins - 1968
Tino Martin - 1968
Gabor Szabo - 1968
Dorothy Ashby - 1969
Boots Randolph - 1971
Klauss Weiss Orch. - 1971
Also recorded by: Bing Crosby; Liberace; The Sandpipers; Jeff Beck &
Rod Stewart; Hugo Montenegro Orch.; Arturo Fuerte; Richard Hayman;
Frank Hubbell & The Stompers; Billy Vaughn; Howard Roberts; Buddy
Merrill; Richard Clayderman; Arthur Lyman; Michelle Lee; Jim Nabors;
Roger Williams; Lawrence Welk; Dave Rooney; Eddie Adcock; Boston Pops Orch.

Blue, blue, my world is blue
Blue is my world now I'm without you
Gray, gray, my life is gray
Cold is my heart since you went away

Red, red, my eyes are red
Crying for you alone in my bed
Green, green, my jealous heart
I doubted you and now we're apart

When we met how the bright sun shone
Then love died, now the rainbow is gone

(Instrumental Break)

Black, black, the nights I've known
Longing for you so lost and alone


[Edited at 2007-03-31 03:22]

[Edited at 2007-03-31 03:29]

[Edited at 2007-03-31 03:43]

[Edited at 2007-03-31 03:48]


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