| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Request to lower prices Thread poster: Emi B
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Emi B
France
Local time: 21:17
French to Japanese
+ ...
Hello,
I had a request from my agency regarding Covid 19 (corona virus).
They ask me to manage to lower the rate (1 or 2 cents).
I understand but we don't know how long this circumstance continues, maybe years ... and it is not easy to increase our rate.
So I don't really agree with that.
What do you think ?
| | | | Thayenga 
Germany
Local time: 21:17
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Something to possibly consider | Apr 18, 2020 |
These are difficult times, so the agency's request for you to lower your price even by 1 or 2 cents is understandable.
Depending on the regularity and volume of your income through them and other customers, that is, if you could afford it, you might consider a temporary lower rate under the agreement that your present rate will automatically be restored once this corona crisis is over.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:17
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Emi B wrote:
Hello,
I had a request from my agency regarding Covid 19 (corona virus).
They ask me to manage to lower the rate (1 or 2 cents).
I understand but we don't know how long this circumstance continues, maybe years ... and it is not easy to increase our rate.
So I don't really agree with that.
What do you think ?
Why on earth should you lower your rate because of Covid 19? I cannot see any nexus between those two things. Perhaps you should ask the agency to explain what it is.
What I *can* see is an underhanded, cynical, opportunistic attempt by them to use Covid 19 as an excuse for threatening translators that if they don't reduce their rates, they won't get any more work.
If you reduce your rate you will never get it back up again. If I were you I would play hardball and INCREASE my rate, with the same pathetic excuse (Covid 19).
[Edited at 2020-04-18 09:41 GMT]
| | | | | It really depends on your current work situation | Apr 18, 2020 |
Emi B wrote:
What do you think?
Hi Emi, I am new to freelancing, so have that in mind, but I do have years of translation experience. I would say it all depends on a few things.
For start, how much is the agency already paying you?
Given the situation, a rate lower by 1 or 2 cents doesn't seem unreasonable if they're paying you your top rate. However, if they already pay you on the lower rate side or less than that even, and now need that reduced by 1 or 2 cents? Well... Also, are they expecting you to lower your rates by 1 or 2 cents, they need to be precise and straightforward. Two cents is double the one-cent reduction. Perhaps they say 2 cents expecting you to compromise and reduce your rates by 1 cent. One cent reduction isn't bad unless they're already paying a pittance.
Secondly, how much work are you getting from them, and how much work have you been getting in general since the COVID-19 situation?
If you aren't getting any work you might be more flexible when it comes to requests like these than if you are still working at a capacity that allows you to afford to (perhaps) lose them as a client, assuming they will go with someone less expensive than you are.
How intricate is the work? This one can perhaps be decided only on a case to case bases for each individual job.
Look round, can many people in your language pair do a decent job translating this material, or is it perhaps a challenging task that you know you can do well and many others won't. If there are people who will charge less but do a poor job of it, then your agency will still need you to fix the mess, so they might as well just pay you the current rate.
These are some of the things I would consider, I hope it helps.
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| Forgive me for stalking you, Tom, I just had to say | Apr 18, 2020 |
Whilst I wouldn't increase the rates, I do absolutely agree with the following analysis of the situation.
Tom in London wrote:
What I *can* see is an underhanded, cynical, opportunistic attempt by them to use Covid 19 as an excuse for threatening translators that if they don't reduce their rates, they won't get any more work.
It still depends on quite a few factors whether you go along with their manipulation, but is it an opportunistic manipulation attempt? Most probably, especially since the seasoned freelance translators do not seem to think there can be a reasonable need for an agency to charge less to the direct clients.
| | | | Liu Peng
France
Local time: 21:17
Member (2011)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| The reason is ungrounded | Apr 18, 2020 |
Dear Emi,
For our freelancers, the way of work is very different from that of translation agencies as well as employees.
Normally, we don't have any financial protection facing this Covid-19. Agencies can apply for financial aid from the government, and employees can get their salary or subsidies even if they are working at home or "get fired". But we, as translation freelancers, we cannot get any aid from the government, because the government would say that "even befo... See more Dear Emi,
For our freelancers, the way of work is very different from that of translation agencies as well as employees.
Normally, we don't have any financial protection facing this Covid-19. Agencies can apply for financial aid from the government, and employees can get their salary or subsidies even if they are working at home or "get fired". But we, as translation freelancers, we cannot get any aid from the government, because the government would say that "even before the pandemic, you work at home, so there should be no impact on you". Please bear in mind, we invoice the amount of words we translate, that is, on a wordly basis, not on a monthly or daily basis. However, we deserve decent revenu as much as those work as employees.
Many agencies will use any excuse to lower translators' rates to make more profits. It is understandable, from the point of view of agencies; yet it is not reasonable to use Covid-19 to lower your rates.
So what are reasonable reasons? For example, for a specific project, if there are many repeated words, the agency may ask you to lower rates, because it is foreseeable that you will use much less time to finish the project. Your workload is "lighter".
However, during this Covid-19 period, are you able to spend less time translating, for example, 1000 words than before? Of course not. So this reason is very ungrounded. When it is not reasonable, even for one cent, in my opinion, you shall not concede.
Peng Liu ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:17
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| The race to the bottom (yes, again) | Apr 18, 2020 |
Korana Lasić wrote:
....seasoned freelance translators do not seem to think there can be a reasonable need for an agency to charge less to the direct clients.
We have no way of knowing if translators are being asked to lower their rates because the agency is lowering what it charges its clients.
But there does seem to be a war going on between the agencies to see who can get the lowest rates out of their translators.
The person who asked you to lower your rate (the Project Manager) is probably getting a bonus for every reduction they achieve.
We'll just have to get used to the fact that for as long as we work for agencies (rather than direct clients) we will be under pressure to do more work for less money.
Nobody will ever ask you for the best quality and offer to pay you more.
[Edited at 2020-04-18 10:37 GMT]
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If one of my long-standing customers would ask me to lower my rate (never happened) and offered me a very good explanation I might consider it. Over the years I have worked pro bono to worthy causes I believe in and very occasionally I have given a freebie to my customers but I have never lowered my rates, quite the contrary. I have also very occasionally volunteered preferential rates for charities, but it was my decision.
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| I do absolutely agree, Tom, and I... | Apr 18, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote: Korana Lasić wrote:
....seasoned freelance translators do not seem to think there can be a reasonable need for an agency to charge less to the direct clients. We have no way of knowing if translators are being asked to lower their rates because the agency is lowering what it charges its clients. But there does seem to be a war going on between the agencies to see who can get the lowest rates out of their translators. The person who asked you to lower your rate (the Project Manager) is probably getting a bonus for every reduction they achieve. We'll just have to get used to the fact that for as long as we work for agencies (rather than direct clients) we will be under pressure to do more work for less money. Nobody will ever ask you for the best quality and offer to pay you more. [Edited at 2020-04-18 10:37 GMT]
I would say that if a person can at all afford it, they shouldn't reduce the rates.
I was just trying to take a nuanced look at it, in case Emi isn't willing to lose them over a 1 cent reduction in prices. On principle, she should, but a lot can also depend on her current living and working situation.
I wouldn't dream of assuming that I knew more about how these agencies work than you do, or Thomas, Dan, Shiela,..., and other seasoned translators here, I am just offering my newbie perspective.
[Edited at 2020-04-18 11:02 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:17
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| My experience | Apr 18, 2020 |
Agency X, with which I have worked for many years without ever increasing my rate, has recently began hiring other translators at lower rates (or has been forcing their existing translators to work for less money) and giving them lots of work, whilst cutting me off.
Agency X is now giving me no work at all. Should I have reduced my rate? I don't think so. I have plenty of work from other sources. I can live without Agency X.
Keyword: D I V E R S I F I C A T I O N
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Tom in London wrote:
Agency X, with which I have worked for many years without ever increasing my rate, has recently began hiring other translators at lower rates (or has been forcing their existing translators to work for less money) and giving them lots of work, whilst cutting me off.
Agency X is now giving me no work at all. Should I have reduced my rate? I don't think so. I have plenty of work from other sources. I can live without Agency X.
Keyword: D I V E R S I F I C A T I O N
As for agency X, well, as they say, "you get what you pay for".
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:17
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| That's a can of worms you don't want to open | Apr 18, 2020 |
Emi B wrote:
I understand but we don't know how long this circumstance continues, maybe years ... and it is not easy to increase our rate.
What do you think ?
I think that if you do cut your rate, you will never be able to increase it again with this client, whatever happens with coronavirus.
I charge each of my clients a single rate. I never vary it, even for rush jobs - my attitude is that if I don't want the job because there's too much time pressure, I just turn it down. I don't raise my rate when I'm busy, or cut it when I'm quiet. My clients know exactly where they stand.
Other posts in this thread imply that rates should vary according to complexity or difficulty and so on. Again, I don't do this, for two reasons.
Firstly, I want everything they bring to me to be challenging, because I want to be able to justify charging a good rate. I want to be the person they come to when they need somebody utterly reliable and with proven competence in the field. I'm happy to leave general business correspondence and "soft" subjects to others.
Secondly, I feel that classifying projects like this is a double-edged sword. Once I start saying "Well, this is more complex than usual, I need 20% more money", the client is free to come back next time and argue that the document they are offering me is 20% less difficult than usual, and that I should charge them 20% less than usual. Then it becomes a question of haggling over exactly demanding the text is. I don't want to go there. Why sow the seeds of friction and conflict needlessly by introducing variables, in the form of changing rates, that you find not only difficult to control but difficult to justify?
This "sowing the seeds of friction", incidentally, is the path down which your agency has begun to walk. It has decided to risk upsetting you and losing your services for short-term gain. Maybe its circumstances justify that, maybe not.
Find a rate you think is reasonable over the long term and stick to it.
Dan
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| Let me just clarify what I meant by "complexity" | Apr 18, 2020 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Emi B wrote:
I understand but we don't know how long this circumstance continues, maybe years ... and it is not easy to increase our rate.
What do you think ? Other posts in this thread imply that rates should vary according to complexity or difficulty and so on. Again, I don't do this, for two reasons. Firstly, I want everything they bring to me to be challenging, because I want to be able to justify charging a good rate. I want to be the person they come to when they need somebody utterly reliable and with proven competence in the field. I'm happy to leave general business correspondence and "soft" subjects to others. Secondly, I feel that classifying projects like this is a double-edged sword. Once I start saying "Well, this is more complex than usual, I need 20% more money", the client is free to come back next time and argue that the document they are offering me is 20% less difficult than usual, and that I should charge them 20% less than usual. Then it becomes a question of haggling over exactly demanding the text is. I don't want to go there. Why sow the seeds of friction and conflict needlessly by introducing variables, in the form of changing rates, that you find not only difficult to control but difficult to justify? This "sowing the seeds of friction", incidentally, is the path down which your agency has begun to walk. It has decided to risk upsetting you and losing your services for short-term gain. Maybe its circumstances justify that, maybe not. Find a rate you think is reasonable over the long term and stick to it. Dan
I am only getting established, or trying, as a freelance, so my situation is entirely different than yours. I will quote for jobs and be turned down, only to be contacted and asked to now do the job in 5 days. Precisely because I don't want to introduce too many variables, like short deadline rates, I simply charge my top rate of 0.15 whereas I'd be willing to do the same job, one month ago and with a reasonable deadline, for 0.10. I also would consider lowering my rate by 0.1 for white goods manuals, but not for legal, medical, IT, literary translations...etc
I do understand you might have the luxury to simply turn down rush jobs, also not do the white goods manuals at all, but as a someone new at working with and trough outsourcers I simply have to start from somewhere and work work work, I need the experience and the networking.
In general, I don't disagree with what you've said, I was simply trying to cover all potential bases since we don' have much backstory. A lot also depends on the situation in Emi's language pair, and whether she is well-established or new at freelancing, and the capacity she was working at before COVID-19.
I am really learning so much from some of you seasoned translators here and my newbie input is just that, newbie input. You must forgive me any potential lack of foresight as that will come only by gaining much more freelancing experience than I have right now. I'm working on it.
[Edited at 2020-04-18 12:02 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:17
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Korana Lasić wrote:
..... I simply charge my top rate of 0.15
In many years working with Italian agencies I have NEVER achieved that rate.
There's a widespread, deepseated conviction in Italy that 0.15 is a laughably high rate that nobody ever gets; and the pressure is down, down, down.
| | | | Tea Komšić
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 21:17
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Blame it on COVID-19 | Apr 18, 2020 |
"Just blame it all on COVID-19" - This is what all these agencies are now saying.
Maybe you should ask them for a proof that their job is really suffering form the pandemic, and that it is a reason to lower your rate. If that turns out to be true, lowering your rate by 1 or 2 cents is reasonable (taking into consideration that your standard rate is very good, and that they pay you on time). But be aware that they might also take advantage of you, meaning that they lower your rate, b... See more "Just blame it all on COVID-19" - This is what all these agencies are now saying.
Maybe you should ask them for a proof that their job is really suffering form the pandemic, and that it is a reason to lower your rate. If that turns out to be true, lowering your rate by 1 or 2 cents is reasonable (taking into consideration that your standard rate is very good, and that they pay you on time). But be aware that they might also take advantage of you, meaning that they lower your rate, but do their own translations for direct clients with their standard price. You never know in such situations. ▲ Collapse
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