Fear of not getting paid: Is it normal for an oursourcer to send all accumulated P.O.s end of month?
Thread poster: Zagarella Maryrose
Zagarella Maryrose
Zagarella Maryrose
Spain
Local time: 12:24
Spanish to English
+ ...
Dec 21, 2020

Hi colleagues, Is it normal not to get a P.O. straight away because the outsourcer sends them all at the end of the month? I am hoping they will give me more work this month, but it would be terrible to spend time translating for them and then not get paid. They have a good score on the Blue Board. They also asked me to sign a contract/NDA which they themselves did not sign. This is terrible, but I was too shy to ask them, afraid of causing offence. If they offer me more work this month, should ... See more
Hi colleagues, Is it normal not to get a P.O. straight away because the outsourcer sends them all at the end of the month? I am hoping they will give me more work this month, but it would be terrible to spend time translating for them and then not get paid. They have a good score on the Blue Board. They also asked me to sign a contract/NDA which they themselves did not sign. This is terrible, but I was too shy to ask them, afraid of causing offence. If they offer me more work this month, should I take it?Collapse


 
Katarzyna Slowikova
Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 12:24
English to Czech
+ ...
No agreement is an issue Dec 21, 2020

Zagarella Maryrose wrote:

Hi colleagues, Is it normal not to get a P.O. straight away because the outsourcer sends them all at the end of the month? I am hoping they will give me more work this month, but it would be terrible to spend time translating for them and then not get paid. They have a good score on the Blue Board. They also asked me to sign a contract/NDA which they themselves did not sign. This is terrible, but I was too shy to ask them, afraid of causing offence. If they offer me more work this month, should I take it?


In many countries P.O.'s are not strictly necessary, an email with the details of the offer and your answer accepting it already constitutes an assignment and could be used in court as a proof. I work for some small agencies that do not send them (nor do they send anything at the end of the month) but if it's a big company it's rather weird if they don't use them. Though I wouldn't say it's suspicious in itself.
What I do find suspicious and risky for you, is the issue with the agreement. You're actually working without having any, as long as it's not been signed by both parties. I would strongly recommend that you ask where is your signed copy. Maybe it just got lost in the post...? (and glossed in the frost or tossed in.... exhaust?? Better ideas welcome!)
Good BB rating is only to be (relatively) trusted if it comes consistently from many translators. If it's like 3x 5 stars, it's worth nothing.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
About the BlueBoard Dec 21, 2020

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

Good BB rating is only to be (relatively) trusted if it comes consistently from many translators. If it's like 3x 5 stars, it's worth nothing.


On the contrary: in my opinion if an outsourcer has a stream of 5 star ratings, in my opinion that is grounds for suspicion. On more than one occasion (at a time when I was less experienced) I put my faith in a couple of multi-5-starred agencies only to find that I was being deceived.

I place reliance on users who give less than 5* and who also provide a reasonable motivation for having done so. I occasionally even contact them privately in order to ask why they gave a lower rating.

As for the Purchase Order question: a Purchase Order is the confirmation of a job, and has legal weight. It means "go ahead; everything is agreed".


Daryo
Jorge Fernández
 
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:24
German to English
Ask the customer Dec 21, 2020

Zagarella Maryrose wrote:

Hi colleagues, Is it normal not to get a P.O. straight away because the outsourcer sends them all at the end of the month? I am hoping they will give me more work this month, but it would be terrible to spend time translating for them and then not get paid. They have a good score on the Blue Board. They also asked me to sign a contract/NDA which they themselves did not sign. This is terrible, but I was too shy to ask them, afraid of causing offence. If they offer me more work this month, should I take it?


A politely-worded inquiry shouldn't offend a customer. Different agencies have different practices regarding POs and payment. For example, for more than 10 years one of my best customers has sent a PO at the end of the month since they send me a large number of jobs each month. I invoice them at the end of the month, rather than after each job, thus everyone is happy with the reduced paperwork.

Sometimes a customer will sign the contract after the translator. Again, each company has its own practice. In my opinion, timely payment is a standard you should use when judging whether to work with a client (and in my experience the definition of "timely" can vary from almost immediately to 60 days after receipt of the invoice. In the latter case, consistency is the key; 60 days shouldn't turn into 90 days!).


Christopher Schröder
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:24
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
What do you know about your agreement? Dec 21, 2020

Are you sure they're going to be sending a PO? Few of my clients send them and that's just fine with me.

Are they expecting to be invoiced for each job or monthly? When and how are they expected to pay the invoice? Have you made that last one clear?

As far as the agreement is concerned, I've rarely had a copy back with their signature on. They might try to wriggle out of it by saying they never signed it, but I doubt the courts would take much notice.

I don
... See more
Are you sure they're going to be sending a PO? Few of my clients send them and that's just fine with me.

Are they expecting to be invoiced for each job or monthly? When and how are they expected to pay the invoice? Have you made that last one clear?

As far as the agreement is concerned, I've rarely had a copy back with their signature on. They might try to wriggle out of it by saying they never signed it, but I doubt the courts would take much notice.

I don't think being shy about sorting out your terms and conditions is a good way to be. You need to think like a businesswoman and take charge. You shouldn't be doing any work at all if you don't know exactly what the terms are. So ask them if/when they'll be sending a PO. Either tell them you're waiting to invoice them, or ask them if they'd prefer a monthly invoice.
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Yolanda Broad
Yvonne Gallagher
Dalia Nour
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Christopher Schröder
Philip Lees
Vera Schoen
 
Zagarella Maryrose
Zagarella Maryrose
Spain
Local time: 12:24
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks guys! Dec 21, 2020

Thank you guys so much for your helpful comments. I think I will follow Katarzyna's advice; if they offer me more work before the end of the month I will ask for a signed copy of the agreement and just hope for the best. The PM did explain that it is their policy to send all P.O.s at the end of the month. They are a small company. Surely they would be afraid to not pay someone, for fear of getting a bad rating on the Blue Board...?

 
Jean Dimitriadis
Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
   Dec 21, 2020

Invoicing once per month is not uncommon and not a ground for suspicion per se.

Just make sure:

- you make your due diligence, as always;
- the payment terms are still acceptable for you (taking into account the fact some jobs might be almost a month old when they do get invoiced); and
- you take it slow and don't take on too big a work volume until the first payments start coming in. Let the collaboration develop naturally…

PS: And definitely
... See more
Invoicing once per month is not uncommon and not a ground for suspicion per se.

Just make sure:

- you make your due diligence, as always;
- the payment terms are still acceptable for you (taking into account the fact some jobs might be almost a month old when they do get invoiced); and
- you take it slow and don't take on too big a work volume until the first payments start coming in. Let the collaboration develop naturally…

PS: And definitely ask whether you can get a signed copy by both parties. No need to be shy about this! Maybe also drafting your own official/default terms can help you in some negotiations in the future.

[Edited at 2020-12-21 19:39 GMT]
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Dalia Nour
 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Zagarella Dec 21, 2020

Zagarella Maryrose wrote:
Is it normal not to get a P.O. straight away because the outsourcer sends them all at the end of the month?


The PO and its meaning or purpose is not standardised throughout the world. For some agencies, it is not a go-ahead but simply an easy way to indicate to the translator what he should put on the invoice.

They also asked me to sign a contract/NDA which they themselves did not sign.


This is perfectly normal. A declaration doesn't need to be signed by the party that the declaration is made to.


Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Kevin Fulton
Christopher Schröder
Sheila Wilson
 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:24
French to English
. Dec 22, 2020

If they only give you the POs at the end of the month, you must remember to keep track of all jobs they give you, just in case they forget something. I don't know what type of job they're sending, but it's likely that there are some small jobs, it can be very easy to overlook those.

Such agencies usually only want one bill from you, for everything they've outsourced to you that month. I try to just add each job to the bill as they come, then just tot it up at the end of the month.
... See more
If they only give you the POs at the end of the month, you must remember to keep track of all jobs they give you, just in case they forget something. I don't know what type of job they're sending, but it's likely that there are some small jobs, it can be very easy to overlook those.

Such agencies usually only want one bill from you, for everything they've outsourced to you that month. I try to just add each job to the bill as they come, then just tot it up at the end of the month. I'm often surprised to see just how much work I've done, because I tend to forget about translations the minute I deliver them.
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Sheila Wilson
Christine Andersen
Ingvild Karlsen
 
finnword1
finnword1
United States
Local time: 07:24
English to Finnish
+ ...
No Dec 22, 2020

If they want a translation now, they should send a P.O. now. Makes no sense to accumulate them. Besides, my best customers don't even send me any. They just send me an email asking if I am available.

 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:24
French to English
Purchase orders - timing Dec 23, 2020

A purchase order is an order to purchase services. Surely it must come before the work? That said, with many clients, a purchase order is not necessarily formalised. Sending them after the work seems a waste of time and I guess that strictly speaking, they are not really purchase orders at that moment in time.

The important thing is to make sure that you have a written trace of what terms and conditions both parties agreed to. What is to be done, by when and at what price are the m
... See more
A purchase order is an order to purchase services. Surely it must come before the work? That said, with many clients, a purchase order is not necessarily formalised. Sending them after the work seems a waste of time and I guess that strictly speaking, they are not really purchase orders at that moment in time.

The important thing is to make sure that you have a written trace of what terms and conditions both parties agreed to. What is to be done, by when and at what price are the major features of any commercial agreement. It's the strict minimum. It is also wise, I would say necessary, to set out what happens if the order is cancelled, if you cannot deliver and if payment is late. This second set of characteristics are extremely important in fact. When the mud hits the fan and nothing has been agreed on this front beforehand, you can find yourself in deep mud!

Edit: If you mean that your client is grouping a number of purchase orders together at the end of the month so that you will then submit one monthly invoice covering all the jobs done, bear in mind the following:
- that you must have agreed to this way of working
- that if this is not the case, then clarify what was agreed
- that this may be a way of paying you later.

Default rules and regulations on the payment of invoices submitted one by one are not necessarily the same as those for an invoice submitted monthly for a number of jobs.

Last but not least, if the net effect is that you are paid later, if your client gets into financial difficulty, then you are exposing yourself to having difficulty recovering a greater amount and/or over a longer period.

In short, this is the sort of thing you need to get clear early on.

[Edited at 2020-12-23 14:43 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:24
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
After the work is too late Dec 23, 2020

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
The important thing is to make sure that you have a written trace of what terms and conditions both parties agreed to. What is to be done, by when and at what price are the major features of any commercial agreement. It's the strict minimum. It is also wise, I would say necessary, to set out what happens if the order is cancelled, if you cannot deliver and if payment is late. This second set of characteristics are extremely important in fact. When the mud hits the fan and nothing has been agreed on this front beforehand, you can find yourself in deep mud!

And all this needs to be known to both parties before work begins; not after it's been done. What are you going to do if they now come back and say that the word order is less than you think, or the rate is less than you thought? You have no negotiating base -- they can just say "take it or leave it". If you know the problem before you've done the work, you can refuse the job or renegotiate the terms.

By querying terms and setting everything out clearly, you gain the respect of outsourcers, who see you as a business partner. By meekly going along with everything they say, and keeping quiet about problems, you're encouraging them to act the boss and trample over your rights as an independent partner.


 
Hongxia LI
Hongxia LI  Identity Verified
English to Chinese
+ ...
reputation is important Dec 24, 2020

No matter an agency or an outsourcer, I check their rating first and then decide if I do business with them. Even though I did it every time, I still got some bad experience with payment's issues.

 


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Fear of not getting paid: Is it normal for an oursourcer to send all accumulated P.O.s end of month?







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