Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

Argumentation

Arabic translation:

الحجاج

Added to glossary by Shazly
Oct 14, 2007 22:29
16 yrs ago
5 viewers *
English term

Argumentation

English to Arabic Art/Literary Linguistics Textypology
Dear big brothers and sisters,

The starting point is that within the translation of argumentation, one may find indications of how the items contribute to specify the argumentative orientation of a sentence stylistically. The assumption is that surface and deep structures are organized intendedly to follow certain argumentative strategies for or against specific conclusions. Therefore, identifying textual features of argumentation is not that easy task for the translator. Elements such as thesis cited, counter argument and justification are main elements. It is best described as an argumentative tactic whose main task is to convince a reader to either take or avoid a given proposition. Let's say that a SLT writer has used ellipsis intendedly and the translator has only echoed the (...). What changes are expected to appear in the TLT. One may think that the few words that preceed the ellipsis are contained in a front page line while the chosen words which come after the ellipsis are taken from another page. Simply, a writer's intellectuality may be beyond reach when such quote is taken from an authority like the late Edward Said (May Allah's infinite mercy be upon him). The following qoutation is my projection, and it is followed with questions.
SLT. “On a visit to Beirut during the terrible civil war of 1975–1976 a French journalist wrote regretfully of the gutted downtown area “it had once seemed to belong to ... the Orient of Chateaubriand and Nerval”.
TLT" في زيارة لبيروت أثناء الحرب الأهلية الرهيبة ۱۹۷٥- ۱۹۷٦ كتب صحفي فرنسي بلهجة آسفة لدمار الوسط الحيوي للمدينه: " لقد بد ت ذات يوم كأنها تنتمي إلى ... شرق شاتوبريان و نر فال ".
Who can help in giving the French journalist name who is said to have visited Beriut?
What changes may occure when transferring such qoute since it is a qoute inside another (reinforced semantically) containing an elipsis? If possible, my intended next sci. paper will tackle this topic. If there are any academic advice I will be gratefull.
Best Regards. A. A. A.
Change log

Oct 20, 2007 23:12: Shazly Created KOG entry

Discussion

Sayed Moustafa talawy Oct 14, 2007:
But concerning the word orient Edward Said had put it in ahighlighted meaning : See my ilustration below
Sayed Moustafa talawy Oct 14, 2007:
yes it could be more accurate in the Exact event look to that
http://acl.ldc.upenn.edu/W/W06/W06-3501.pdf
Ahmed Elimam (asker) Oct 14, 2007:
please try out my second guestion (below). 1st Ques. I got the name of the qoute encoder (Thierry Desjardins). Thanx to Atida.com.
How can informativity & intertextuality in the abovementioned qoute help in identifying the assumed upcoming & projected thesis of argumentation? If the impact of meaning is tangible, please see the ... (ellipsis tech) in the way it influences the embedded metaphore in using the word (Orient). So How an ellipsis can be meaningful to this degree??????

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

الحجاج

المحاججة
الجدل
المجادلة

يتمثل الحجاج في إنجاز متواليات من الأقوال بعضها هو بمثابة الحجج اللغوية، وبعضها الآخر هو بمثابة النتائج التي تستنتج منها

Pleading: محاجّة

argumentation:
the act or art or an exercise of one's powers of argument
example: noted for his skill in argumentation

Note from asker:
Dear shazly, I initiate by a big thank you for the data. I hope that I can participate to help people in quite the same way you do.
Peer comment(s):

agree Amira Abdallah : شكرا جزيلا على هذه المعلومات وكل سنة و انت طيب
1 day 10 hrs
agree ferines10
3 days 19 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I thank you for the link and more for the encouragement. "
23 mins

Desjardins (See Ilustration) by Edward Saied

Orientalism
Edward Said
Random House 1978
From The Post-Colonial Studies Reader
Edited by Bill Ashcroft, Gareth Griffiths, Helen Triffin
Routledge, NY and London @1995

ON A VISIT to Beirut during the terrible civil war of 1975-1976 a French journalist wrote regretfully of the gutted downtown area that ‘it had once seemed to belong to ... the Orient of Chateaubriand and Nerval’ (Desjardins 1976: 14). He was right about the place, of course, especially so far as a European was concerned. The Orient was almost a European invention, and had been since antiquity a place of romance, exotic beings, haunting memories and landscapes, remarkable experiences. Now it was disappearing; in a sense it had happened, its time was over. Perhaps it seemed irrelevant that Orientals themselves had something at stake in the process, that even in the time of Chateaubriand and Nerval Orientals had lived there, and that now it was they who were suffering; the main thing for the European visitor was a European representation of the Orient and its contemporary fate, both of which had a privileged communal signifi­cance for the journalist and his French readers... .



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Note added at 24 mins (2007-10-14 22:53:49 GMT)
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http://www.trickster.org/basilica/said1.htm

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Note added at 26 mins (2007-10-14 22:55:32 GMT)
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http://www.elsj.org/kanto/orientalism.htm

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Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-14 23:09:48 GMT)
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Subject ellipsis is one of the characteristics
of informal English. The investigation
of subject ellipsis in corpora thus reveals
an abundance of pragmatic and extralinguistic
information associated with
subject ellipsis that enhances natural language
understanding. In essence, the
presence of subject ellipsis conveys an
‘informal’ conversation involving 1) an
informal ‘Topic’ as well as familiar/close
‘Participants’, 2) specific ‘Connotations’
that are different from the corresponding
full sentences: interruptive (ending discourse
coherence), polite, intimate,
friendly, and less determinate implicatures.
This paper also construes linguistic
environments that trigger the use of subject
ellipsis and resolve subject ellipsi
http://acl.ldc.upenn.edu/W/W06/W06-3501.pdf

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Note added at 43 mins (2007-10-14 23:13:01 GMT)
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it means
أن ظاهرة التخاطب العقلي المسبق قد تكون تماما مشابه لم يحدث واقعيا قيما بعد


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Note added at 44 mins (2007-10-14 23:14:02 GMT)
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لهذا كانت التشبيه الدقيق بين ما كتبة الصحفي وماكان يدور بخلده أنذاك

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Note added at 55 mins (2007-10-14 23:24:40 GMT)
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Perhaps it seemed irrelevant that Orientals themselves had something at stake in the process, that even in the time of Chateaubriand and Nerval Orientals had lived there, and that now it was they who were suffering; the main thing for the European visitor was a European representation of the Orient and its contemporary fate, both of which had a privileged communal significance for the journalist and his French readers.
Americans will not feel quite the same about the Orient, which for them is much more likely to be associated very differently with the Far East (China and Japan, mainly). Unlike the Americans, the French and the British—less so the Germans,

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-10-14 23:54:01 GMT)
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and ckech here also
I WANT TO THINK about Orientalism and some of its prehistories and alternative archaeologies by focusing attention on questions of time and the experience of time. I suggest that such questions interrupt the tendency to treat Orientalism primarily in terms of space, of East and West as simply spatial categories, by necessarily entailing ideas about history and historical development. As an object of knowledge for the West, the East seems to have been, from the start, a site of origins, a place with an important past but a troubling present. Edward Said's Orientalism (1978) opens by evoking the figure of nostalgia in recalling how a French journalist, reporting from Beirut after the civil war of 1975-1976, "wrote regretfully of the gutted downtown area that 'it had once seemed to belong to ... the Orient of Chateaubriand and Nerval." (1) For Said, the Orientalist chronotope is necessarily "backwardness," since the idea of Eastern backwardness follows directly from European ideas of "positional superiority" that have permeated Western thought "from the late Renaissance to the present." (2) In assigning the East to the past, Orientalism operates chronotopically, telling a story about time. Orientalism is also constituted by a formalized array of chronotopical elements that might well occur within systems of signification otherwise unrelated to Orientalism: nostalgia, for instance. Chronotopes both embody and convey some instantly recognizable or at least seemingly transparent sets of attitudes about another time by linking that time with a place. As such, they provide rhetorical ways of using temporality to provide at once a measure of both spatial difference and spatial distance.

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-10-14 23:55:49 GMT)
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وهذا قول معارض لهذه الفكرة
بقوله ان ذلك اسقاطات من الحركة الفكرية الأوروبية

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-10-14 23:56:49 GMT)
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http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2220/is_3_46/ai_n1576...
Note from asker:
Dear Sayed, I thank you for the data you have provided. It works
Hospitality is a great aspect and it is inherited via the genatic aspects that a human may carry. I owe you many thanks.
I thank you for the links you have provided and still I am looking forward to approach your being very helpful. Many thanks brother Sayed.
please, if you have time see how similar my second question is?
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