ProZ.com outsourcing CPN members at 0.06€/w (Staff: ProZ.com is not an outsourcer, but a platform)

Samuel Murray wrote:

Well, since the API is set to search the directory, I wonder if the agency's use of the API filters out translators whose profile pages state that their rates are higher than EUR 0.06. Perhaps a ProZ.com staff member can answer that question for us.

Neil Ashby, PhD in Chemistry wrote:

.....- BY THE TRANSLATOR'S AND TRULY FOR THE TRANSLATOR'S

Lincoln Hui wrote:

Please see the faq ( http://www.proz.com/faq/163672#163672 ), which says...

Samuel Murray wrote:

The discussion is only visible to LinkedIn members who are also members of the group where this discussion was posted. I have no idea what the agency's name is that you're referring to.

Samuel Murray wrote:



No, I was not aware of it, but I see nothing wrong with it. I do believe that the opt-out procedure should be more visible (you gave the link, but I have no idea how I would otherwise get to that page). The API enables clients to search the ProZ.com directory via their own systems and to contact translators directly. No information is shared with those clients that isn't already visible in the public view of your profile page. It can only benefit translators.



The discussion is only visible to LinkedIn members who are also members of the group where this discussion was posted. I have no idea what the agency's name is that you're referring to.



Well, since the API is set to search the directory, I wonder if the agency's use of the API filters out translators whose profile pages state that their rates are higher than EUR 0.06. Perhaps a ProZ.com staff member can answer that question for us.



If I understand the API correctly, your details aren't shared with the agency at all. The agency's web site allows its visitors to search the ProZ.com directory via the agency's web site.



Yes, the fact that it would appear to visitors of that agency web site that the agency has access to a large number of vetted or qualified translators is one of the advantages of this service for the agency. However, unless your name is mentioned on the agency's web site, your name is not dragged through the mud. And CPN membership does not require a certain minimum rate.



You created a ProZ.com profile page voluntarily. By doing so, you authorised ProZ.com do do certain things with your data. Do you know what those things are? Do you know what you authorised ProZ.com to do with the data that you submitted yourself?


[Edited at 2013-12-30 17:04 GMT]

Proz are directly or indirectly advocating the service of "0.06€/word unique price for all pairs" - that's my main problem

I never claimed that this BROKER is a Proz API partner -

Opening post:
- this would appear to contradict the price offered by their "API" partner [A CERTAIN AGENCY IN FRANCE] - 0.06€/WORD BEING THE PRICE PAID BY THE END CLIENT.

Proz have authorised them to use the PCN logo

but they are! Proz have authorised them to use the PCN logo, they have a list of PCN members who are willing to work at these rates, Proz were told about the site 3 months (see the linkedin discussion I mentioned at the start.....in fact see and read all of the links I gave at the start, they include the full picture) and have done little to stop the association which in my book means they endorse the association and the rate of 0.06€ / word.

they have a list of PCN members who are willing to work at these rates

and have done little to stop the association which in my book means they endorse the association and the rate of 0.06€ / word

Why I am bothering?!?? if you can't see the wood for the trees then that's your problem.

Michal Fabian wrote:

I thought this was obvious, but here goes:

I chose to be included in the ProZ directories. I didn't allow anyone to include me in some Dixit directory (the bikini shop, er, I mean agency, in question).

Moreover, if you're included in this directory (just to clarify: I'm not a Certified PRO, at least not in the ProZ sense, and have no intention to become one, but the point still stands), it is implied that you are ready and willing to work for 0.06 EUR/word. This is 1. not true and 2. pretends to make my rates public, even though they are not published anywhere and no client knows them before they contact me.

You might argue that via ProZ, we are receiving offers constantly that are even below 0.06. That is true, but again, I allowed the clients to contact me via ProZ by signing up to the site and making my profile public. Not so much the case with the other directory.

Samuel Murray wrote:


Actually, thanks to the fact that Michal Fabian's most recent post has not yet been hidden at the time that I saw it, I now know which agency you're referring to.

For those who don't know, the offending wording on the web site's home page is:

[Agency] offers you quality translation and proofreading performed by professional and verified translators, translating exclusively towards their mother tongue. Quick and easy thanks to it's intuitive platform, [agency] is able to handle large flows of translations with the ability to integrate our solution via API to your system. Single price: 0,06 € / word into more than 38 languages.

And on the customer registration section's first page, it says:

Human translation...
With [agency] your translation projects are carried out by professionals worldwide.
...certified
[Agency] works with professionals in the ProZ.com Network. All our translators are certified, experimented and verified.
...and localized
All translators employed by us are highly qualified and work exclusively into their native language and therefore translate cultural expressions used in their own country. Your work will be translated in the mother tongue and give the reader a clearer understanding - "Go global, think local!"

(followed by a ProZ.com logo and a CPN logo.)

I don't see anything that would warrant the reaction you had in your original post, so I suspect your gripe is not with the API but with the fact that the agency offers low rates and claim that they use ProZ.com CPN translators. The API itself is not at fault here.

I tested their system a bit but I was unable to get to the screen where my text is assigned to actual translators (or where the ProZ.com directory is actually searched), because their system requires customers to pay in advance.

Tom in London wrote:



But not into English, I hope....

Lincoln Hui wrote:


I have yet to see how you manage to come up with such a...fantastic...assertion.

The Proz Certified Network symbol appears beside the low price given by this agency, I am part of that network......do you see how this works. Can't you see the endorsement of poor business practices?


If not intentional negligence, then poor memory.

Got me there - poor memory, too many holiday drinks.



ProZ has now authorized me to use the PCN logo. And in 1066 I went to the moon with the pope.

Very flippant and sarcastic, great contribution - Neil

Seriously, if you're so outraged at this company, at least make the effort to check out their profile page and see if they're actually registered as a Certified PRO. Given that your LinkedIn link is conveniently open to group members only, and you've clearly stated that ProZ never replied to you queries, your claim that the company is "authorized" to use this logo looks like a fancy of imagination, at best. At worst, you are demonstrating that you will take the claims of a company that you consider to be a sham at face value - a claim which they don't even make, incidentally.
?????????????????? Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say????????????????? I wasn't aware that the linkedin link was 'closed' - I wouldn't bother with it because I don't think you would find it very interesting! I did visit their website and my antivirus warned me against it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So, assuming all these are true...what does this have to do with being a "Proz API partner"? Better still, what on earth is a "Proz API partner"?

So you don't know what you are talking about then?


So, are you saying that ProZ members are not free to make their own decisions and have to seek ProZ's approval before negotiating with any client or agency? Isn't that called slavery in some quarters of the world?


This assertion goes against the laws of so many countries that I'm not sure if I should even treat it seriously. How exactly do you expect ProZ to stop them? "Hey pretty please with sugar on top, could you not use our logo"? Difficult and expensive litigation against a company on the other side of the Atlantic when it's virtually impossible to provide evidence of loss in court? By your book, 90% of movie producers endorse movie piracy, because they don't see the time and effort needed to going after every pirate as being worth it.

By the way, if you want to say that ProZ should delete the company's listing on their website: I WOULD be concerned if they did so, because that means I might have my membership purged next time I had a DUI and got my name in the news. Associating ProZ membership with members' off-site activities is a bottomless legal can of worms.


Trees? This is taking a toothpick and calling it a forest.

Lincoln Hui wrote:

Which part of "ProZ's API search is identical to the public directory" do you fail to understand?

Neil Ashby, PhD in Chemistry

The Proz Certified Network symbol appears beside the low price given by this agency, I am part of that network......do you see how this works. Can't you see the endorsement of poor business practices?

So you don't know what you are talking about then?

?????????????????? Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say????????????????? I wasn't aware that the linkedin link was 'closed' - I wouldn't bother with it because I don't think you would find it very interesting! I did visit their website and my antivirus warned me against it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michal Fabian

And that this directory might be searched in by the general public. Very much unlike ProZ.

Lincoln Hui wrote:

If you are seriously suggesting that ProZ cannot be searched in by the general public, I suggest that you try ProZ's search function while logged out before embarrassing yourself any further.

I will note, however, that ProZ's API cannot be searched in by the general public. Very much unlike ProZ.

[Edited at 2013-12-30 18:52 GMT]

Neil Ashby, PhD in Chemistry wrote:

apparently in our industry price-fixing would be illegal although it occurs in every other industry

I am not suggesting that at all. Failing to comprehend a point at such grand a scale is indeed quite remarkable.
What I have been saying is that I am aware that the general public can search for my services via ProZ. Many of other users on ProZ, however, are unaware that a French retail has been advertising their services on their site.

I guess you wouldn't mind if I put a link to your website on a portal about golden retrievers? Oh, but I already have, three months ago, meant to tell you... Couldn't hurt, could it?

I hope you don't mind if I start using your profile pic as my profile pic. After all, this does not suggest that you endorse me in any way and it's half the way away anyway (paraphrasing you).