| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | That is not a joke! Thread poster: Levan Namoradze
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Levan Namoradze 
Georgia
Local time: 03:33
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dear Henry,
Thank you for your clarification.
Just one addition: if I were them, I would rather post that job asking for a charity than proposing such fee.
Kind regards,
Levan
| | | | Mike Kidd (X)
United States
| Context for ProZ.com's participation in the Nobel Prize project | Dec 7, 2006 |
Greetings all,
Thank you all for your perspectives and feedback on this topic. I also wanted to jump in here and add some context to the Nobel Prize subtitling project that we publicly announced yesterday.
When this opportunity crossed my desk back in late October, I discussed many facets and issues associated with our potential involvement with two ProZ.com jobs moderators. Of concern to me and them was the payment level for these projects. You should know that this... See more Greetings all,
Thank you all for your perspectives and feedback on this topic. I also wanted to jump in here and add some context to the Nobel Prize subtitling project that we publicly announced yesterday.
When this opportunity crossed my desk back in late October, I discussed many facets and issues associated with our potential involvement with two ProZ.com jobs moderators. Of concern to me and them was the payment level for these projects. You should know that this concern was also shared by Ashoka, the originator of this project, who realized that the money donated by VISA for these projects was not compensation, but rather an honorarium - a token of thanks if, you will.
The moderators and I also recognized that participating in this very high profile project might bring a great deal of positive exposure to those ProZ.com professionals who participated as they would be officially recognized in the films’ credits. Further, our participation would also bring positive attention to the entire ProZ.com community with the potential to attract other highly desirable outsourcers, who do pay at market levels.
As such, I concluded that being associated with the Noble Prize subtitling effort was good for our community and thus, donated just for this project, the use of ProZ.com’s premium job system to Ashoka and dotSUB.
Further, you should know that it was the because of the rapid response from ProZ.com’s community of professionals that made this effort even possible. For those of you who participated, I extend my sincere thanks.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.
Best to all,
Mike ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Maybe the forum rules should be reviewed? | Dec 7, 2006 |
gianfranco wrote: Sylvano wrote:
Which company is that? Hi Sylvano, sorry but the forum rules expressely forbid to discuss specific outsourcers, for obvious reasons.
Hi Gianfranco:
What I do not quite understand is why we can rate outsourcers on the BB but not discuss them somewhere else.
I use the BB to find "good" outsourcers. Sometimes, though, they turn out to be not so good...
Today I contacted an agency with a 4.8 rating (19 entries) and I got a reply TWO minutes later asking for my rates. I quoted my rates and the agency's reply was: We pay .04 for English>Spanish translation.
I mean, if we were allowed to discuss agencies or they were made to include their rates on their profiles, we could focus on the ones we are interested in only.
Best,
Monica
[Edited at 2006-12-07 17:48]
| | | | gianfranco
Brazil
Local time: 20:33
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Clarification | Dec 7, 2006 |
trixiemck wrote:
Hi Gianfranco:
What I do not quite understand is why we can rate outsourcers on the BB but not discuss them somewhere else.
Hi Monica,
The BlueBoard is the feature specifically designed to post feedback on our experiences with outsourcers.
Its rules are such that the possibility of slander, from both parties, is minimized, therefore protecting name and reputation, again for both parties.
In a forum, any discussion about a named outsourcer (or translator) could easily get out of control, in particular if one of the parties involved is unhappy about some event. Also, one of the named parties could be unaware of the discussion and unable to balance a possibly biased description of the events.
For these reason, and as a sensible precaution, the site allows the discussion about any issue but not the naming of specific persons/companies.
trixiemck wrote:
Today I contacted an agency with a 4.8 rating (19 entries) and I got a reply TWO minutes later asking for my rates. I quoted my rates and the agency's reply was: We pay .04 for English>Spanish translation.
The BlueBoard should be taken only as general feedback about an outsourcer, and the feedback is not provided only on the basis of the rates paid.
trixiemck wrote:
I mean, if we were allowed to discuss agencies or they were made to include their rates on their profiles, we could focus on the ones we are interested in only.
I find it unlikely that outsourcers would like to post their rates, either for their customers or their vendors, and anyway the figures may change for every project and situation.
bye
Gianfranco
[Edited at 2006-12-08 06:43]
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Levan Namoradze
Georgia
Local time: 03:33
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dear Gianfranco,
Thank you for your response.
You wrote about "great deal of positive exposure", "the entire ProZ.com community with the potential to attract other highly desirable outsourcers, who do pay at market levels", etc.
Do you really think that "highly desirable outsourcers, who do pay at market levels" do not use paying attention to details; they do not read announcements at homepage of Proz and then do not trace further details of such project? I... See more Dear Gianfranco,
Thank you for your response.
You wrote about "great deal of positive exposure", "the entire ProZ.com community with the potential to attract other highly desirable outsourcers, who do pay at market levels", etc.
Do you really think that "highly desirable outsourcers, who do pay at market levels" do not use paying attention to details; they do not read announcements at homepage of Proz and then do not trace further details of such project? I strongly believe that the answer is "no". Do you believe that remuneration of USD 100.00 for 55 min film subtitling is a good for any exposure? Let me repeat: "if I were them, I would rather post that job asking for a charity than proposing such fee."
Dear Gianfranco, I use thanking Proz staff for good performance. That is especially true for the last year. However, the said situation is NOT A GOOD EXAMPLE.
Kind regards,
Levan ▲ Collapse
| | | | gianfranco
Brazil
Local time: 20:33
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Those were not my words | Dec 7, 2006 |
Hi Levan,
you are addressing me, but referring to words written by Mike Kidd.
In particular, if you want to know, I know next to nothing about Premium Jobs, and nothing at all about this particular job and its rates. The decision to allow it as a Premium Job, apparently, has been discussed between the site staff and 2 Jobs Moderators.
Independently from this particular case, if a job is of particular interesting for me, for whatever reason, I would be ready to a... See more Hi Levan,
you are addressing me, but referring to words written by Mike Kidd.
In particular, if you want to know, I know next to nothing about Premium Jobs, and nothing at all about this particular job and its rates. The decision to allow it as a Premium Job, apparently, has been discussed between the site staff and 2 Jobs Moderators.
Independently from this particular case, if a job is of particular interesting for me, for whatever reason, I would be ready to accept a rate lower than my standard, but not if such lower rate is only 10-20% of the normal range of rates.
In that case, if the job goes to a charity or a good cause, I would rather work for free than accept a ridicolously low rate.
It is, anyway, a very personal choice and the project must be explained clearly up front. I don't know if that happened in this case and can't express any opinion about it.
bye
Gianfranco
[Edited at 2006-12-08 09:06] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Levan Namoradze
Georgia
Local time: 03:33
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I beg you pardon | Dec 8, 2006 |
Dear Gianfranco,
You are right! That was my mistake. I beg you pardon!
Kind regards,
Levan
| | | | Sylvano
Local time: 01:33
English to French
| That's what the fuss is (really) about : | Dec 8, 2006 |
Do you believe that remuneration of USD 100.00 for 55 min film subtitling is a good for any exposure? Let me repeat: "if I were them, I would rather post that job asking for a charity than proposing such fee."
Levan, I back you 100% on this.
if the job goes to a charity or a good cause, I would rather work for free than accept a ridicolously low rate.
Gianfranco, you're absolutely right. Problem is the Nobel Prize "job" wasn't clearly advertised as a charity and WITH a scandalous rate.
As Levan points out, that kind of offer may have disastrous effects on our "normal" rates. Reading that, some clients could be tempted to ask for such (bad) rates in classic transactions.
Whatever Proz might say, as we, users, have to be responsible for what we write on clients in forums, you do have a responsibility (a moral one, at least) in making publicity for the outsourcers or giving them access to your website.
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| Serious Sicilian Subtitling | Jun 8, 2007 |
Agnieszka Gordon Ph.D. wrote: Olivia MAHÉ wrote: Carmen Hernaiz wrote:
I think they may send the same massage to so many members, to see if someone accepts. And believe me, someone will.
Carmen No doubt, someone will! Rates in the subtitling industry go down because serious companies can't sustain the competition with low cost ones, which have dozens of would-be subtitlers at their disposal, so much fascinated by the wonderful world of subtitling that they are willing to accept anything in order to enter it... Noone cares about quality, anyway. That's absolutely right...Someone accepts the low rate and then we watch the film and see how bad the subtitling is...I have seen films where the meaning was completely different from original one...must have been non professional who had done it. Sad but true The same happens for translation, I had agencies proposing me funny money for technical translation. They will always try and I am sure someone accepted it. That's why the agencies often choose to set up in India - cheap workforce is the priority, not the quality itself. Aga
At least translating has various controls (more or less) , we can measure certain industry standards - even if largely these standards are not really formalised/recognised like other branches of learning/ability... My question is where ARE the subtitling measures/ quality control standards?? here are some criteria I found on the net: (Quote & I apologise for not including the URL - I saved it as a doc for my reference..))
CRITERIA FOR QUALITY SUBTITLING
THE PURPOSE OF SUBTITLING
Subtitles must reproduce the intent of an original work that would otherwise be inaccessible or incomprehensible to a given audience.
THE ELEMENTS OF SUBTITLING
Subtitles are defined as lines of text reproducing language content in screen media.
The process of subtitling involves controlling three key elements:
• Time
• Space
• Content
The cueing of subtitles must follow the speech rhythm, taking cuts and sound bridges into consideration. Dialogue becomes incomprehensible if a subtitle enters at the wrong time.
The amount of text in a subtitle must be consistent with the viewers' reading speed. Achieving this usually requires compressing the dialogue; if the amount of text in the subtitle is too great in comparison with its exposure time on the screen, the audience won't have time to read it.
The translation must reproduce the message conveyed in the original work. Errors in translation or language will distract the viewer.
The subtitle's cueing, brevity, and content are factors that help to convey the intent of the original work. If any of these elements are inadequate, viewer perception will be impeded, and this may cause the audience to discontinue their viewing.
CRITERIA DETAILS
A lot of work has gone into all the aspects of any production. Subtitling alters the original, and consequently, certain rules must be observed in order to ensure that the subtitles blend in with the original work. High-quality subtitling enhances the overall experience for the target audience.
Time and Space
The viewer must be given enough time to take in both image, sound and subtitle.
Subtitles should be cued to match the dialogue, and adjusted according to the cuts. Sometimes it is best to cue in the subtitle at the cut instead of waiting for the corresponding dialogue. The subtitle should preferably be cued out at the cut. A subtitle may only linger after a cut if this is within the same scene, and must be cued out if a cut occurs from one scene to another.
Consecutive subtitles must be cued using a fixed interval, which can be set to 2, 3, or 4 frames and must be consistent throughout the entire translation. The fixed frames interval must be used if the pause between two subtitles is less than one second, unless several cuts occur during this time.
Context, language, audio and visual editing each have a bearing on the amount of text one subtitle may contain. A subtitle of two full lines requires a duration of approximately 6 seconds, while a subtitle of one full line requires approximately 3 seconds (i.e. 12 characters per second). Subtitles with a duration of less than one and a half seconds should be avoided.
Content
Each subtitle should be semantically self-contained.
Idiomatic phrases and expressions should always be used. The subtitle content should not contradict the dialogue or image (e.g. body language). Replacing the names of people or places with the names of other people or places should be avoided; such names should be explained or, if necessary, translated.
The style of the target language must be equivalent to the style of the source language. Converted measurements and numbers must be rounded to an equivalent degree of precision.
National subtitling standards for punctuation, italics, text alignment, continuation and dialogue indicators must always be followed.
(End QUOTE)
My point is that it's all a bit vague!! and dare I say - bordering on the obvious (dare I?). Sure, it's not easy (maybe even not possible) to organise rules governing the semantic minefield of language.. Practical advice would be better.. Fair enough we talk about time compression, space and content - but exactly what are the methods for reducing language, and who's to say which parts of the message, of the language are the most valid.. (ok, I'll get off my soap-box..) Anyhow - and you have probably already guessed! I'm starting out in subtitling. If anyone can recommend professional software - an all-round eclectic solid performer.. I would be interested to know about it. (I’ve read about wincaps, roxio's and a few others.. they're generally very expensive.. so I need some feedback from someone who has used them before buying)
Sicilian Matt
Summer's here!!
| | | | John Alphonse (X)
United States
English
+ ...
| Standards link with Word download | Mar 31, 2008 |
You can download a helpful document in Word on the subject at this site:
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » That is not a joke! | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
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