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  3. Law (general)

vitesse retenue

English translation: speed retained

05:02 Jan 23, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / speed excess
French term or phrase: vitesse retenue
It's about a speeding ticket. The actual speed is 163 km/h, but the police write 153 on the ticket
Sema
English translation:speed retained
Explanation:
I think this is the safest way of expressing this, albeit very literally.

There will be 'vitesse constatée / mesurée / etc.' — which is the speed shown on their radar; and then there will be this 'speed retained for the purposes of this offence', which is the measured speeed minus the applicable margin of error — so it is always lower. Only if this 'speed retained' is still over the limit will the driver be punished.

We can sometimes say 'adopted' for 'retenu', but I think in this abbreviated context, this wouldn't be helpful, unless entering into a longer explanation.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 14:36
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3speed retained
Tony M
4 +2speed for penalty purposes
philgoddard
4speed cited
B D Finch
3marginal speed
SafeTex
3 -2tolerance; margin of error
mrrafe


  

Answers


30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
tolerance; margin of error


Explanation:
Have never seen this system so I don't know what it would be called in English. The police impute the lower speed as a conservative estimate because they don't want to argue with the defendant about the accuracy of the higher, observed speed recorded. The retenue gives the defendant the benefit of the doubt. The flash is part of the photography. https://www.legipermis.com/blog/2015/06/25/radar-exces-de-vi...

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Note added at 1 hr (2020-01-23 06:43:10 GMT)
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Thanks Phil but my problem was, they calculate a term that purports to be reducible to two words. Can't imagine any, so I decided they really must mean "allowance for margin of error" but are saying it in a casual, abbreviated way to fit it onto the ticket. If the 153 is "retenue," it would be amusing to see how they characterize the 163. Actuelle? Apparente?Bogus?

mrrafe
United States
Local time: 08:36
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: Your reference is very helpful, but the tolerance/margin of error here is 10 km/h.
33 mins
disagree  Tony M: This is not the tolerance or margin: it is the resulting speed after that has been taken into account. It is certainly not safe to imagine that "they really must mean"!!
2 hrs
disagree  Daryo: tolerance and margin of error are not the same + the term is about what is left after applying the tolerance, NOT the margin of tolerance itself.
10 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
speed retained


Explanation:
I think this is the safest way of expressing this, albeit very literally.

There will be 'vitesse constatée / mesurée / etc.' — which is the speed shown on their radar; and then there will be this 'speed retained for the purposes of this offence', which is the measured speeed minus the applicable margin of error — so it is always lower. Only if this 'speed retained' is still over the limit will the driver be punished.

We can sometimes say 'adopted' for 'retenu', but I think in this abbreviated context, this wouldn't be helpful, unless entering into a longer explanation.

Tony M
France
Local time: 14:36
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 258
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  erwan-l
11 mins
  -> Merci, Erwan !
agree  AllegroTrans: yes, it's in the sense of "used" or "employed" for the ticket or "imputed". Maybe even "discounted speed" borrowing from a comment by BD
6 hrs
  -> Thanks, C!
agree  Daryo: the speed "retained" for the purpose of sentencing - after deduction the "tolerance" from the real measured speed // if the limit is 70 mph there is "tolerance" so only speed above 75-80 mph (not sure of the exact number) is considered as "speeding".
7 hrs
  -> Thanks, Daryo!
disagree  philgoddard: Sorry, but I think this is a mistranslation. English doesn't use "retained" in this way.
8 hrs
  -> Thanks, Phil! Well, over here in GB we certainly do, in certain specific cases.
agree  Yvonne Gallagher: "applicable margin of error" known as "shoulder of tolerance" here
20 hrs
  -> Thanks, Yvonne!
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
speed cited


Explanation:
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=879776
"... traveling at the speed cited, but the officer fails to note -- even when requested ..."

Speed Enforcement Program Guidelines - State of Michigan
https://www.michigan.gov/
PDF
describe well-defined crash characteristics such as time of day and weather, it is ... The difference between the cited speed and the speed limit can provide a.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:10:58 GMT)
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https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-is-the--actual-speed-...
"[Q] How is [sic] the "actual speed" written on the ticket opposed to the "cited speed" affect you?

I was cited for going 50 in a 45 mph zone but the officer wrote down 63 as my actual speed. Why is that? Does this affect how many points I get? Or how my insurance premium will rise? Or is it just notes for him?
...
"[A] The officer gave you a break on the ticket. You were cited for for speeding 1-10 mph over the speed limit. Based on your actual speed, you could have been cited for speeding 10-20 mph over the speed limit. A charge that has a higher fine and carries more points. The prosecuting attorney could amend the charge to the 10-20 mph over, but it is not likely."

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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:14:11 GMT)
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Detecting racial bias in speed discounting: Evidence from ...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/
by N Anbarci - ‎2014 - ‎Cited by 20 - ‎Related articles
We find that police officers often discount the cited speed and lower the fine. ... speed on their citation than the actual speed that they observe the vehicle doing.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-01-23 11:36:14 GMT)
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As an aside, one reason for the police citing a lower speed is to enable them to threaten to increase the cited speed if the driver appeals, thus increasing the penalty. This is a way of discouraging appeals.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 14:36
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 509

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: In both your examples, 'cited' doesn't exactly equate to the 'retenue' here. / yes, but 'citation' here is a particularly US usage — do we use it in GB? / I've seen 'retained' used in other contexts than speed...
7 mins
  -> Does the example I have just added help? I think the point is that this speed "retenue" is what is used and I don't think "retained" works here in English.// Agree "citation" is EN-US, but think "cited" is OK. Can you show examples for "retained"?
neutral  AllegroTrans: "cited" suggests quoting something (e.g. what another policeman said or wrote). Whilst you clearly understand what is going on I think it's the wrong word
4 hrs
  -> OK, you're more of a specialist with this sort of thing than me, so I accept your judgement ML.
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
speed for penalty purposes


Explanation:
I think this is tricky, and definitely a pro question. I also think Allegro's suggestion of "imputed" is on the right lines.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2020-01-23 17:14:28 GMT)
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His "discounted" is also good.

philgoddard
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 282

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  GILLES MEUNIER
11 hrs
agree  AllegroTrans: This works well and avoids any doubt
18 hrs
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: I think another word is needed with "speed"
19 hrs
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
marginal speed


Explanation:
As this system is well know in France but not in the UK, it is hard to get the idea over with just a couple of words. If the asker does not like "retained speed", how about this?

SafeTex
France
Local time: 14:36
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 87

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: But it isn't "marginal", a loaded word which could mean almost anything
9 hrs
  -> Hello. I thought this might work in that "marginal" can mean "close to lower limit" but I duly note that you don't like it
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