Help with Catalan pronunciation Thread poster: Samuel Murray
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 00:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Hello everyone
I sing in a choir and we have a Catalan song, and I'm trying to get to correct pronunciation. I used the website Narakeet and converted the text using two different voices, but the two voices pronounce two sets of words very differently, so I'm hoping to get some insight here. The two voices are Abril and Jordi. Here is how they pronounce the following texts (converted to my own language's phonetic script):
... See more Hello everyone
I sing in a choir and we have a Catalan song, and I'm trying to get to correct pronunciation. I used the website Narakeet and converted the text using two different voices, but the two voices pronounce two sets of words very differently, so I'm hoping to get some insight here. The two voices are Abril and Jordi. Here is how they pronounce the following texts (converted to my own language's phonetic script):
Je me levé un bel maitin, Matineta per la prata;
Abril: dsjeh meh...
Jordi: zsjuh ma...
Y digalo a mon ami: que je ya só maritata.
Abril: ke zsjeh ya...
Jordi: ke zsjeh zsjeh...
https://www.narakeet.com/app/text-to-audio/?projectId=32118e4d-c2b2-44d9-8c58-b8d11b96d102
Both voices get the "Y" terribly wrong (it's funny actually), but for the rest of the text, which which voice is closer to Catalan?
Thanks ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Can I see the written text? | Feb 12 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Hello everyone I sing in a choir and we have a Catalan song, and I'm trying to get to correct pronunciation. I used the website Narakeet and converted the text using two different voices, but the two voices pronounce two sets of words very differently, so I'm hoping to get some insight here. The two voices are Abril and Jordi. Here is how they pronounce the following texts (converted to my own language's phonetic script): Je me levé un bel maitin, Matineta per la prata; Abril: dsjeh meh... Jordi: zsjuh ma... Y digalo a mon ami: que je ya só maritata. Abril: ke zsjeh ya... Jordi: ke zsjeh zsjeh... https://www.narakeet.com/app/text-to-audio/?projectId=32118e4d-c2b2-44d9-8c58-b8d11b96d102 Both voices get the "Y" terribly wrong (it's funny actually), but for the rest of the text, which which voice is closer to Catalan? Thanks
The Y is pronounced like the 2 ee in beef, I hear every day the Catalan-Valencian pronunciation, I can help, but not being my native language I'd need to see the written text
| | | | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Angie Garbarino wrote:
Can I see the written text?
The link found by Maria is the good one.
The Y is pronounced like the 2 ee in beef...
That is what I thought, yes. Narakeet does not realize that it is a word, so it pronounces it as "the letter Y". My question is about the underlined text, though.
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Problem now is to write it in your phonetic
Perhaps i can read it for you in a whatsapp message? So you can use your phonetic?
[Edited at 2024-02-12 14:18 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Angie Garbarino wrote:
Perhaps i can read it for you in a WhatsApp message?
PB sent
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 00:01
Italian to English
+ ...
| This isn't Catalan! | Feb 13 |
This isn't a Catalan text. It's taken from the Spanish manuscript Cancionero de Palacio, which is why much of the notation is clearly Spanish (Catalan doesn't have the 'ñ'). The MS contained songs in Spanish, Latin, Basque, Aragonese and Portuguese. Probably if the author of the manuscript had notions of Catalan, it would be via Aragonese.
Although it was based on an archaic Catalan original, it came down through many versions and is a mish-mash of languages because of its long st... See more This isn't a Catalan text. It's taken from the Spanish manuscript Cancionero de Palacio, which is why much of the notation is clearly Spanish (Catalan doesn't have the 'ñ'). The MS contained songs in Spanish, Latin, Basque, Aragonese and Portuguese. Probably if the author of the manuscript had notions of Catalan, it would be via Aragonese.
Although it was based on an archaic Catalan original, it came down through many versions and is a mish-mash of languages because of its long story.
The 'Spanish' version in this MS starts:
Ju me levé un bel maitin.
Matineta per la prata
encontré le ruyseñor
que cantava so la rama.
Dindirindin.
This is derived from an earlier 'French' version that starts:
Mi levay per un matin,
m’en entray en no jardin [...]
Rencontray le roussignou
qui estoit dessubz l’ombrade.
La dinderidin.
This in turn was based on an earlier 'Neapolitan' version that went:
Dindirindín ridín rindayna, dindiridín.
Me levay un domatín,
matinet danant l’alba,
per andar a un giardín
per collir la ciroflada.
Dindiridín.
But the Neapolitan version is linguistically clearly an Italic rendering of an older Catalan original, of which (AFAIK) there is no written version.
So you don't have to worry too much about the pronunciation, which has very little to do with modern Catalan. The 'Je' of your version ('Ju' in the actual MS) is certainly derived from French and should be pronounced as such, but in any case in old Catalan it would also have a soft 'j' sound like the 'g' in French -age terminations.
[Modificato alle 2024-02-13 13:49 GMT]
[Modificato alle 2024-02-13 15:11 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 00:01
Italian to English
+ ...
| Sorry I didn't answer the exact question! | Feb 14 |
1. Je me levé un bel maitin, Matineta per la prata;
Abril: dsjeh meh...
Jordi: zsjuh ma...
2. Y digalo a mon ami: que je ya só maritata.
Abril: ke zsjeh ya...
Jordi: ke zsjeh zsjeh...
1. Both are correct, but Jordi is reading 'Ju' from the original... See more 1. Je me levé un bel maitin, Matineta per la prata;
Abril: dsjeh meh...
Jordi: zsjuh ma...
2. Y digalo a mon ami: que je ya só maritata.
Abril: ke zsjeh ya...
Jordi: ke zsjeh zsjeh...
1. Both are correct, but Jordi is reading 'Ju' from the original text in the MS (https://stcpress.org/miscellaneous/dindirin_dindirin/dindirin.png) whereas Abril is reading 'je' from a 'corrected' version.
2. I would go for Abril. I imagine the Spanish author of the manuscript wrote 'ya' in Spanish and so anyone reading it from a Spnaish collection of songs in the Court of Aragon would have sung it that way. In Catalan this word would have been 'ja', which in old Catalan would be more like 'zsjah', which may be what Jordi (who is presumably Catalan) is singing it that way but as I said in my earlier post, the song isn't written in Catalan, but in a mish-mash of languages. ▲ Collapse
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