| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Sending reference/recommendation letters to a potential translation agency Thread poster: expressisverbis
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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I have applied to a job posted here and sent my application to a translation agency that is asking for a reference letter confirming that I have automotive translation experience and the volume of pages translated between 2021 and 2022.
I usually work with a direct client in this area for years and obviously I will not disturb my client with this.
If I were just starting out, I would probably send that recommendation letter, the problem is that this kind of request disturbs me a litt... See more I have applied to a job posted here and sent my application to a translation agency that is asking for a reference letter confirming that I have automotive translation experience and the volume of pages translated between 2021 and 2022.
I usually work with a direct client in this area for years and obviously I will not disturb my client with this.
If I were just starting out, I would probably send that recommendation letter, the problem is that this kind of request disturbs me a little, because I think I don't have to prove anything to anyone and the proof is there: my higher education, my experience, my KudoZ points in automotive questions, my website (though it needs to be improved), and my personal integrity that is of supreme value to me!
I only sent my application for this job because it is one of my areas of interest and work. In fact, it is what I usually do, although I rarely apply for many other jobs here.
I'm tempted to ask that company to send me a small translation test that wouldn't exceed 300 words, or refer them to my WWA, although I don't ask for much "praise" from companies or clients I work with and have met on Proz.
What would you do in my place? Many thanks for your suggestions.
[Edited at 2023-04-04 13:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Eva Stoppa 
Germany
Local time: 11:58
English to German
+ ...
| No Names of clients! | Apr 4, 2023 |
Being asked what I'd do in such a Situation, definitely, I wouldn't give out names of my hard-earned private Clients. Even if just starting out! There are many reasons for that:
1) Data protection. Who wants their names spooking around in data lists without having given their permission?
2) Would you like to spend your time answering phone calls, emails, etc., not asking you for testimony on another Service Provider instead of asking you if you are available to take o... See more Being asked what I'd do in such a Situation, definitely, I wouldn't give out names of my hard-earned private Clients. Even if just starting out! There are many reasons for that:
1) Data protection. Who wants their names spooking around in data lists without having given their permission?
2) Would you like to spend your time answering phone calls, emails, etc., not asking you for testimony on another Service Provider instead of asking you if you are available to take on a Job?
3) You certainly did some Marketing effort to gain that Client? Why not let the agency do their own Marketing efforts? Do they want to get potential clients' names served on a ray? Who tells you they won't use that reference to give them an offer of their own and outbid you in the Long run?
I even wouldn't voluntarily do an unpaid test Translation. If they want to check your skills, they can give you that 300 words Translation, but have them pay for it for Heaven's Sake!
That's my two Cents for this post. ▲ Collapse
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I'm with you on this. It's unreasonable of any agency to expect references.
| | | | Eva Stoppa
Germany
Local time: 11:58
English to German
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[Bearbeitet am 2023-04-04 13:42 GMT]
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Eva Stoppa wrote:
3) You certainly did some Marketing effort to gain that Client? Why not let the agency do their own Marketing efforts? Do they want to get potential clients' names served on a ray? Who tells you they won't use that reference to give them an offer of their own and outbid you in the Long run?
That's exactly what I think every time I see these requests...
Yes, a lot of effort. And no way I would disclose my client's data or name!
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I would give them the number of words I’ve translated in x, y and z years, but regarding recommendation letters I always say that I’m covered by NDAs (even if this isn’t always true…).
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Take it or leave it | Apr 4, 2023 |
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
I would give them the number of words I’ve translated in x, y and z years, but regarding recommendation letters I always say that I’m covered by NDAs (even if this isn’t always true…).
I already sent them an email before I saw your post, and I was very clear.
Take it or leave it. I don't like wasting my time and besides all the paperwork we can be asked for, I'm not about "to haggle over prices" and get paid whenever they want.
| | | | | Take or leave it | Apr 4, 2023 |
I try to be as accommodating as possible with all my existing and potential clients but setting rates, deadlines, invoicing format and payment terms are my responsibility, not theirs.
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you everyone! | Apr 5, 2023 |
So far... silence. Nobody answered me. Let's see if they will say something...
I started by saying that I could not disclose information about my client for obvious reasons other than GDPR.
Then I sent the number of words translated, my Kudoz points in automotive questions (which is my second field of expertise) and indicated that I would be willing to accept a short translation test.
Lastly, I explained very well that payments are made within 30 days of sending my invoice and... See more So far... silence. Nobody answered me. Let's see if they will say something...
I started by saying that I could not disclose information about my client for obvious reasons other than GDPR.
Then I sent the number of words translated, my Kudoz points in automotive questions (which is my second field of expertise) and indicated that I would be willing to accept a short translation test.
Lastly, I explained very well that payments are made within 30 days of sending my invoice and that my rates were not negotiable.
I also pay for electricity, water, my accountant, my insurances, my mortgage, my dentist, my amounts due as a taxpayer, etc., and they are NOT NEGOTIABLE.
It's bad enough that some translation agencies have long payment terms, and some absurd requirements, let alone ask for references or confirmation of our work when everything is in plain sight!
Given the range of scams we often read here on certain "translation agencies", I think we also have the right to start asking for references/proofs from them. A world upside down...
Thank you everyone!
[Edited at 2023-04-05 12:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I received a polite reply from the agency that thanked me, but their client would really need a written document confirming the volume of pages translated and delivered by me in these two years:
"Unfortunately the client requires written references from translators for this project."
It's amazing how a document can make such a difference for some people!
Certain procedures need to be followed in tenders, but in this case and from what I was informed it was not a tender at all.<... See more I received a polite reply from the agency that thanked me, but their client would really need a written document confirming the volume of pages translated and delivered by me in these two years:
"Unfortunately the client requires written references from translators for this project."
It's amazing how a document can make such a difference for some people!
Certain procedures need to be followed in tenders, but in this case and from what I was informed it was not a tender at all.
I am sure they will get a lot of reference letters and they will be happy.
Someone who doesn't believe in me as a professional translator doesn't deserve my attention... When someone doesn't believe in you, don't try to prove yourself to them.
Believe in yourself and just prove how good you are - and I have provided them with that. ▲ Collapse
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expressisverbis wrote:
Believe in yourself and just prove how good you are - and I have provided them with that.
...what professional harm would it be to offer them a letter of recommendation from the agencies you worked for in that domain? Provided, that agency would be so polite as to issue proof for you, of course, but why should they refuse? You then could send that letter to your potential client and write some lines about why you or they ended collaboration with you (i.e. pricing reasons, PM has changed etc.). I don't believe they will contact each other to ask for other serious reasons (quality or payment issues). And with your new profile photo, you should be on the winner's side anyway...
| | | | | Because we are not employees | Apr 7, 2023 |
Matthias Brombach wrote: ...what professional harm would it be to offer them a letter of recommendation from the agencies you worked for in that domain? Provided, that agency would be so polite as to issue proof for you, of course, but why should they refuse? You then could send that letter to your potential client and write some lines about why you or they ended collaboration with you (i.e. pricing reasons, PM has changed etc.). I don't believe they will contact each other to ask for other serious reasons (quality or payment issues). And with your new profile photo, you should be on the winner's side anyway...
I can only speak for myself, but I do not want to inconvenience my clients with requests from their competitors for the purpose of assisting said competitors. I'm not an employee looking for a new job. Some agencies seem to have great difficulties understanding the differences between an employee and an external provider.
And I would absolutely not provide confidential information about why someone ended collaboration, pricing issues, PMs etc. It's none of the requesting business's business. We don't have to justify to anyone why we work or not with any particular business.
They can look at any public feedback here on Proz and on my own website, and I’m happy to provide a short free test, but if they want to snoop further around in my business and my clients, they can go comb monkeys, as they say here in Portugal.
I believe we need to stand our ground as independent providers and not let potential clients encroach on our decision-making, procedures, relationship with other clients, etc. In other words, we need to respect ourselves and our businesses enough to decline such unreasonable requests. Troublemakers are best left alone. They may well end up with the least competent colleagues, as the smartest ones will stay away.
I have never taken profile photos into account when deciding whom to do business with, but maybe things are done differently in Germany😉
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 10:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Matthias Brombach wrote: ...what professional harm would it be to offer them a letter of recommendation from the agencies you worked for in that domain? Provided, that agency would be so polite as to issue proof for you, of course, but why should they refuse? You then could send that letter to your potential client and write some lines about why you or they ended collaboration with you (i.e. pricing reasons, PM has changed etc.). I don't believe they will contact each other to ask for other serious reasons (quality or payment issues). And with your new profile photo, you should be on the winner's side anyway...
The professional harm is that I am not a client or agency recruiter for other translation agencies.
Once, when I was starting out, I asked for written references from a company I still work because the approach was different.
In this case, I didn't see any trust on the side of this agency and I am almost certain that their client is not even European Portuguese to be able to assess the quality of my translations.
Also, I would not bother my direct client for this either, although I know he would never refuse to provide information about the quality of my work - which he has never complained about and nor have I ever complained about payments. He is one of my best direct clients. I could have also asked other companies I work for, the problem is that I don't like to ask these things from anyone and besides, when I hire a service from another professional I don't go hunting for references. People should know that a translator is a service provider like any other.
That's not the problem. I know who I am as a person and as a professional. but as we say here I trust myself but I trust others always being suspicious. However, I know that neither trust nor doubt should be 100%.
About the profile photo... The former one was old and I'm still here thinking about a more professional one, because this one doesn't fit...
Anyway, it's not with photos that we prove we are good professionals, it's with words and acts
Happy Easter to everyone!
[Edited at 2023-04-07 12:18 GMT]
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...I missed the point that it was about a direct client asking for reference. Of course, then you should not deliver to them proof from agencies. In that case, your profile photo should be sufficient
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 11:58
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Those references are BS anyway. I sometimes come across them on LinkedIn profiles. 'Testimony of mister X working for company Z: "I enjoyed a lot working with person A, she was very professional and meticulous in everything she did, etcetera bla bla bla."
My eye balls always start rolling like crazy every time I read that empty silliness.
A short translation test or a short first order is all it takes. If an agency isn't willing to provide that in order to assess your c... See more Those references are BS anyway. I sometimes come across them on LinkedIn profiles. 'Testimony of mister X working for company Z: "I enjoyed a lot working with person A, she was very professional and meticulous in everything she did, etcetera bla bla bla."
My eye balls always start rolling like crazy every time I read that empty silliness.
A short translation test or a short first order is all it takes. If an agency isn't willing to provide that in order to assess your capabilities, it probably says a lot about that agency. ▲ Collapse
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