| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | No peanuts for translators Thread poster: Camilla Aldini
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Baran Keki 
Türkiye
Local time: 14:26
Member
English to Turkish
| Importance of luck | Feb 1, 2023 |
While the colleagues here provide sound pieces of advice and you should take them on board, you must know and understand that a lot in this business depends on luck/good fortune (I'd say almost as high as 70 percent). If you're not lucky, all that marketing, promotion, schmoozing in fairs, time and money spent on building a personal website etc. will be all for naught.
Your lucky break may come in a matter of months or it may take years. If you don't have the patience for it then you migh... See more While the colleagues here provide sound pieces of advice and you should take them on board, you must know and understand that a lot in this business depends on luck/good fortune (I'd say almost as high as 70 percent). If you're not lucky, all that marketing, promotion, schmoozing in fairs, time and money spent on building a personal website etc. will be all for naught.
Your lucky break may come in a matter of months or it may take years. If you don't have the patience for it then you might as well look for something else. I didn't earn anything significant in my first two years, and, being ignorant, I was working for peanuts as well (4-5 cents). Now I make as much as, if not more than, a bank manager here. Patience is the name of the game. Your lucky break will come, but you'll just have to wait for it (this doesn't mean you shouldn't do anything in the interim, do go out to the fairs and what not, but if luck is not on your side then they won't mean much is my point). ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki wrote:
While the colleagues here provide sound pieces of advice and you should take them on board, you must know and understand that a lot in this business depends on luck/good fortune (I'd say almost as high as 70 percent). If you're not lucky, all that marketing, promotion, schmoozing in fairs, time and money spent on building a personal website etc. will be all for naught.
Your lucky break may come in a matter of months or it may take years. If you don't have the patience for it then you might as well look for something else. I didn't earn anything significant in my first two years, and, being ignorant, I was working for peanuts as well (4-5 cents). Now I make as much as, if not more than, a bank manager here. Patience is the name of the game. Your lucky break will come, but you'll just have to wait for it (this doesn't mean you shouldn't do anything in the interim, do go out to the fairs and what not, but if luck is not on your side then they won't mean much is my point).
Luck is certainly a part of it, but if you don't do the work you probably won't get that lucky break - and you may let it go by when you do.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:26
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| You need a bit of it, agreed | Feb 1, 2023 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
Luck is certainly a part of it, but if you don't do the work you probably won't get that lucky break - and you may let it go by when you do.
Reminds me of the old saw about luck being the intersection between preparation and opportunity.
It doesn't matter how many opportunities come your way. If you haven't done the groundwork to take advantage of them when they appear - or if you find reasons not to take advantage of them, including self-sabotage - you'll get nowhere.
Dan
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 13:26
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Dan Lucas wrote:
It doesn't matter how many opportunities come your way. If you haven't done the groundwork to take advantage of them when they appear - or if you find reasons not to take advantage of them, including self-sabotage - you'll get nowhere.
Very true. Luck always needs a little help. You can't force clients to ask you for translation work, but your chances will increase significantly if you contact them by the hundreds or if you enhance the possibility to be contacted in one way or another.
Luck stays an important factor, but it's no excuse to rest on your laurels. On the contrary.
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I checked your profile, and it's quite detailed, which is great, but I would definitely skip the first sentence in your bio where you explain that after years in tourism you started the translation career. If I were a client that would turn me off, so I believe it's not something to focus on. The other thing is, among specializations field you only mentioned Law (general), maybe you would want to add more fields, I see you took leg... See more I checked your profile, and it's quite detailed, which is great, but I would definitely skip the first sentence in your bio where you explain that after years in tourism you started the translation career. If I were a client that would turn me off, so I believe it's not something to focus on. The other thing is, among specializations field you only mentioned Law (general), maybe you would want to add more fields, I see you took legal course at the university which can already be a great start. Besides, clients can search the proz directory filtering by specializations so you risk that they don't even see your profile.
And the third thing, if you live in Spain, maybe it would be a good idea to pitch to Spanish agencies/direct clients at this point, because the surveys have shown that one is economically better off living and working in one’s source language zone, for simple reasons of supply and demand. As far as English to Italian combination, if you want to be competitive and stand out in the crowd specialize!
And there are so many great advices here on proz forum on how to get started, so be sure to check them out, eventually they will pay off. I wish you the best of luck! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 14:26
Member
English to Turkish
| Yes, of course | Feb 1, 2023 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
Luck is certainly a part of it, but if you don't do the work you probably won't get that lucky break - and you may let it go by when you do.
I don't think I've suggested that you should pin all your hopes on luck and pray for the best. That would be the daftest thing to do.
I created a CV (which was later stolen and used by Arabic scammers to apply to my former agency where I worked as an-inhouse and was fired after a 10-year stint), built my profile here, forked out cash and worked for weeks and months to build a website which ended up in an abject failure, applied to loads of agencies and got into their books and never once heard from any of them. In short, I've done everything 'you people' said  In the end I have about 4 regular clients and some occasional clients that supply me with work. Let me tell you about how I got to work with 2 of them, and you tell me if it's down to my super duper marketing skills?
1- I was in the books of one particular agency for some years, which would send me 100 to 300 words every other month or so. I was sick of those small jobs, Paypal costs alone wouldn't even justify them. I don't exactly remember how it happened, but one day I saw a post by one of their PMs on LinkedIn, and I may have commented on it (I can't remember, it's been such a long time now), but I do remember sending her a message through there asking if she could put in a word for me with her other colleagues, or something like that. I don't know what possessed me to do that, but it worked. She said yes and then I started receiving larger volumes of translation work from them (not all of a sudden mark you, it took some time, but now they're one of my main clients). I must have sent dozens of messages to people on LinkedIn over the years and only a handful of them returned my messages (they were mostly to ask for registering with their agencies) and she was one of them. She might very well have been one of those people who wouldn't even check their LinkedIn account. But I got lucky there (or so I thought?).
2- Last summer I applied to a job ad here on Proz (Yes, the hated Proz job board! Bottom feeders' paradise), it was for proofreading (of all jobs). Again I can't explain what led to me apply to that ad, but I took the time and wrote a brief message (it was one of those bidding jobs, not the one where you apply by email) and asked for a hefty proofreading rate. I said something along the lines of "I don't like doing unnecessary changes to undermine and disrespect the translator's work". It was that sentence that clinched it. It turned out that their translator had been suffering from a series of 'over-zealous proofreaders', and that set them (an EU agency) off on a search for a proofreader here on Proz, and I, unwittingly, struck a chord with them. I got onboard and did a very large revision project for them. Their translator was terrible, but I did my best to contain myself. Some months later, they asked my translation rate and started giving me translation work, apparently by doing away with their translator (I have nothing to do with that, my conscious is clear, as it were). I'm now making hundreds of EUR from that agency (would probably be making thousands if I were translating into an EU language).
I think these 2 examples will serve. I shouldn't go into details as to how I landed my most important client as the person involved may be checking these forums, but it suffices to say that luck played a major role there again. I'm making somewhere between 1k to 3k from these two agencies on a monthly basis (just to put things into perspective for you).
My initial advice to the OP was to be patient to seize her chance. Of course she needs to do things first to create those chances, and it's ultimately up to her skills and competence (I was going to say experience, but she doesn't seem to have much of that) to make the most of those chances.
Maybe you guys don't need luck as much as I do given your language pairs, specialization etc. I know for a fact that Mr. Dan Lucas feels insulted if it's so much as hinted that luck played any part in his success in any shape or form. I don't think I'll agree with you entirely on this matter, but I do agree that you need to do things to create your luck (and I didn't say anything contrary to that). It's just that waiting for your lucky break takes time, but you're likely to get it sooner than you hear from any one of those agencies to which you have sent applications. In my experience agencies find you, you don't find them. Again you can put this down to marketing efforts, and I can put it down to luck.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 14:26
Member
English to Turkish
I haven't always been fortunate btw. I was (and on paper I'm still) working with a UK Life Sciences agency at a very good per word rate. I was very friendly with a certain Welsh PM there. She even raised my rate off her own bat. But about 2 years ago she got married and then had a child and eventually she as good as left the job. Since then I've been hardly getting any work from them. I sent them a few emails to ask about jobs, and they said they haven't been getting any Turkish jobs, which was ... See more I haven't always been fortunate btw. I was (and on paper I'm still) working with a UK Life Sciences agency at a very good per word rate. I was very friendly with a certain Welsh PM there. She even raised my rate off her own bat. But about 2 years ago she got married and then had a child and eventually she as good as left the job. Since then I've been hardly getting any work from them. I sent them a few emails to ask about jobs, and they said they haven't been getting any Turkish jobs, which was BS.
Until they started using Memsource about 3 years ago they were sending word files only, and most of their projects (clinical trials) were the same stuff (exact matches, repetitions) and they were paying new word rates for every word file. But the gravy train came to a halt at last... ▲ Collapse
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[quote]Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:
CroPro wrote:
Indeed, unfortunately this happens, and often the material is translated into English by non-natives. And very often this means the so-called English source material for translation is less than perfect.
I'm not sure if you should translate into a language you don't master on a near-native level.
At the very least, hire a native English-speaking translator--preferably one fluent in the source language--to edit the material.
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 07:26
Japanese to English
+ ...
Agencies that have been banned from proz.com typically post on Linked.in.
| | | | | in-house experience before going freelance | Feb 2, 2023 |
Camilla Aldini wrote:
Dear fellow translators,
I am relatively new here, but I would like to take advantage of this space to share my frustration with you.
I have only recently entered this world, but it seems that, in order to work, I have to be willing to accept ridiculous conditions (I guess you know what I am referring to). I have applied (through this and other marketplaces) to take part in various projects, but with no response or, perhaps given my lack of experience, with "indecent proposals". I have also applied as a pro bono translator, but it seems that my language pairs have little market.
I feel stuck in a dead-end situation, or maybe I should just be more patient....Am I the only one? Would you like to share with me your first steps into the world of translation?
Thank you for listening to me...
After I jumped into translation in 2005, it took me five years of in-house work as a translator and editor to learn the ropes and gear up for freelance. Years on the staff of a large translation company have proved particularly rewarding.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 13:26
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Denis Danchenko wrote:
After I jumped into translation in 2005, it took me five years of in-house work as a translator and editor to learn the ropes and gear up for freelance. Years on the staff of a large translation company have proved particularly rewarding.
I did exactly the same and I'm pretty sure it's one of the main reasons my freelance career in 18 years never had to go through heavy waters.
It's like jumping into the ocean when you can't swim versus jumping into the ocean after 5 years of swimming lessons and competitive swimming in an Olympic pool.
| | | | Elise Hendrick
United States
Local time: 07:26
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
| The counterproductivity of some attempts to save on translations in less common language pairs | Feb 3, 2023 |
[quote]Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:
Indeed, unfortunately this happens, and often the material is translated into English by non-natives. And very often this means the so-called English source material for translation is less than perfect.
This is the bane of my existence both as a translator of Japanese and Korean to target languages less common than English and as a patent translator generally, because I'm constantly getting sent patents that were clearly either MT'd or translated from Japanese or Korean by someone who doesn't know the source and/or target language in order to avoid having to pay someone to go from JA/KO to ES or DE. The result is utterly unintelligible garbage, which I'm then asked to render onward into ES or DE.
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 14:26
Member
English to Turkish
Denis Danchenko wrote:
After I jumped into translation in 2005, it took me five years of in-house work as a translator and editor to learn the ropes and gear up for freelance. Years on the staff of a large translation company have proved particularly rewarding.
In-house experience is invaluable, but it's important to keep it brief (2 to 3 years max.), I've spent 10 years, which was the biggest mistake of my life (although it's made me 'overqualified' in many respects)
I'm always puzzled by people's eagerness to dive into this profession (freelance translation) with zero experience, and more puzzled still by the forum members' eagerness to give them 'useful tips' (creating a CV, marketing yourself, networking etc.) to point them in the right direction. Yes, these are useful tips to start, but if you don't know how to translate, what use are they?
This is one profession where you literally 'learn on the job', 'by doing it'. I very much doubt they teach you how to translate clinical trials, MSDS, occupational health and safety, corporate policies, court decisions, patents, escrow agreements, annual reports, online games in a Translation program. Of course, Rachel would argue that you should you go to a medical or business school first to undertake any medical translation (even though they are as easy as clinical trials) or an annual report. This is an option, no doubt, but it still won't teach you how to employ the right style and tone, form the sentences the right way, use the proper terminology, go to the right sources and do a proper research, in short all the tool of the trade, knowledge, insight and intuition that come from years of practice and experience. You probably couldn't even use DeepL properly (as valuable a tool as it is) if you haven't acquired the skills and chops which they don't teach you in any academic program.
I'm guessing those agencies paying peanuts are employing those young translators who come here for advice and they are probably paying more for revision/proofreading to more seasoned translators and expect them to make a decent output out of those translations. No offense to the young and inexperienced, I'm merely sharing my observations here (of course I'm always wrong).
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:26
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Isn't it natural... | Feb 3, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote:
This is one profession where you literally 'learn on the job', 'by doing it'. I very much doubt they teach you how to translate clinical trials, MSDS, occupational health and safety, corporate policies, court decisions, patents, escrow agreements, annual reports, online games in a Translation program. Of course, Rachel would argue that you should you go to a medical or business school first to undertake any medical translation (even though they are as easy as clinical trials) or an annual report.
...that each side, inasmuch as there are sides, will emphasise the aspects of the job where they believe they have (had) a relative advantage, and downplay those aspects where they are relatively weak?
People like you and Chris focus on the importance of translation as a learned skill and make the point that the domain-specific knowledge can be picked up along the way, so no biggie. People like Rachel or myself focus on the centrality of industry expertise acquired at significant cost in time and effort, while positing that if translation is a skill then it can't be that hard to acquire since they're doing well with no translation-specific training.
And so it goes, back and forth. Which side is right? Whichever one leads you to success! It's okay to have a preferred approach, but it is evidently possible for both to be effective.
Dan
| | | | | 'Translation skill' transcends 'industry expertise' | Feb 3, 2023 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Baran Keki wrote:
This is one profession where you literally 'learn on the job', 'by doing it'. I very much doubt they teach you how to translate clinical trials, MSDS, occupational health and safety, corporate policies, court decisions, patents, escrow agreements, annual reports, online games in a Translation program. Of course, Rachel would argue that you should you go to a medical or business school first to undertake any medical translation (even though they are as easy as clinical trials) or an annual report. ...that each side, inasmuch as there are sides, will emphasise the aspects of the job where they believe they have (had) a relative advantage, and downplay those aspects where they are relatively weak? People like you and Chris focus on the importance of translation as a learned skill and make the point that the domain-specific knowledge can be picked up along the way, so no biggie. People like Rachel or myself focus on the centrality of industry expertise acquired at significant cost in time and effort, while positing that if translation is a skill then it can't be that hard to acquire since they're doing well with no translation-specific training. And so it goes, back and forth. Which side is right? Whichever one leads you to success! It's okay to have a preferred approach, but it is evidently possible for both to be effective. Dan
Generally, I've found 'industry expertise' hard to externalize when applied to 'translation skill'.
I like to think of it as a derivative of terminology, context and research intelligence bolstered up by plain common sense.
I've seen these take shape as a result of focused translation work within limited text-type and subject domains.
[Edited at 2023-02-03 11:44 GMT]
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